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AK for Diaw Trade Investigation
Posted by: Andy Larsen on September 24th, 2010
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.The proposed 4 way trade involving Carmelo Anthony includes the Utah Jazz sending out Andrei Kirilenko to the Denver Nuggets, while receiving Boris Diaw from the Charlotte Bobcats. If the trade goes through, how would the Jazz be impacted? If you’re a follower of mine on Twitter @andyblarsen, you have some idea of what I think on this issue, but let’s do a more detailed investigation:
Andrei Kirilenko:
| 2009-10 Statistics | FG | 3PT | FT | Rebounds | Misc | ||||||||||||
| G | MIN | FG% | 3P% | FT% | TOT | STL | BLK | TO | PF | AST | PTS | ||||||
| Season | 58 | 29.0 | .506 | .292 | .744 | 4.6 | 1.43 | 1.22 | 1.36 | 1.76 | 2.7 | 11.9 | |||||
Boris Diaw:
| 2009-10 Statistics | FG | 3PT | FT | Rebounds | Misc | ||||||||||||
| G | MIN | FG% | 3P% | FT% | TOT | STL | BLK | TO | PF | AST | PTS | ||||||
| Season | 82 | 35.4 | .483 | .320 | .769 | 5.2 | .73 | .70 | 2.17 | 2.67 | 4.0 | 11.3 | |||||
At first glance, AK and Boris Diaw have very similar box score stats. Boris Diaw gets about 15% more minutes than Andrei does, so he’s a little bit less efficient, but he’s not bad. Of course, AK detractors will point to the 58 games played, which is absolutely a valid concern.
However, once you start looking to the more advanced statistics, ones that indicate defensive ability and on-court vs. off-court team performance, the picture moves decidedly towards Kirilenko. Here are both players 82games.com stats:
| Production | On Court/Off Court | Simple | ||||||
| Player |
Min | Own |
Opp |
Net | On | Off | Net | Rating |
| Kirilenko | 43% | 20.4 | 12.1 | +8.3 | +6.8 | +4.2 | +2.6 | +6.0 |
| Diaw |
73% | 14.3 | 16.4 | -2.1 | +2.7 | -1.9 | +4.6 | +0.6 |
The first number, Production, is in PER, Hollinger’s all-in-one production statistic. 15 is average, 20 is star worthy, and 30 is Lebron. Kirilenko’s offensive production was at 20.4 last year, which significantly exceeds Diaw’s 14.3 PER. This is where the per minute averages become important. Furthermore, Kirilenko’s defense is significantly better; he holds opponents to a below average 12.1 PER, while Diaw does not.
Worth noting is that Diaw spent most of his time on the court last year (76%) at PF, and the remaining time at center. Diaw is not a 3/4, he is a 4/5. He would provide backup to Millsap/Jefferson/Okur, rather than being a starting candidate at 3 like Andrei.
Basketball Prospectus is another group of basketball statistical analysts, and they have created a couple of interesting statistics that try to measure how many wins a player contributes to his team. The first is WARP, which stands for Wins Above Replacement Player. A replacement player is a statistical construction which seeks to define a baseline level of production. A player’s WARP represents his production above that baseline. Andrei Kirilenko had a 6.6 WARP last year, which means he contributed 6.6 wins more than a replacement level player (say, Jeffers) would have contributed. AK’s production increased our win total from 46 to 53 wins last year.
On the other hand, Boris Diaw had a 2.4 WARP last year. Therefore, if you replaced AK with Boris Diaw last year (even though Andrei only played 24 fewer games!), the Jazz would have only been a 49 win team last year, sending us out of the playoffs.
This wasn’t a statistical fluke, every single year, Kirilenko has had a significantly higher WARP than Diaw. Andrei’s contributions on the offensive and defensive side of the ball legitimately add wins to the Jazz’ total every year.
I estimate that if this trade occurred, the Jazz would be 4-8 wins worse next year, and in the incredibly tight Western Conference, that might knock us out of the playoffs. If that happened, the financial benefits of the trade would be largely negated through loss of playoff revenue. This trade would be a mistake.
Replies: 59
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59 Responses
Damn bro good sh**! I like the blog, but without even looking at the numbers, I already know this trade is a mistake! unless the Millers are doing this to save money to bring in a all-star on a later date, they would have to be completely stupid, or some cheap sons of bit**es
Andy – Great analysis. Thanks for taking the time to post this.
That said, I disagree that we will necessarily lose an additional 3-4 games. If you want to look at all the factors, look at all the factors.
#1 – ~Half of our players are new to the team. We all recognize that we don’t understand how that will impact our team play. This could be good, or not. Most of us think it will be good.
#2 – I don’t think Andre is a fit for what the Jazz are turning into. He is an overpriced, good player. I love what he brings to the table, but I believe if you do what you have always done, you will get what you have always gotten. We need to make some changes, and I think this one is a little over due.
#3 – His departure will probably mean more minutes for Haywood, who needs them to develop.
#4 – You don’t know how Diaw will benefit from 1) The Jazz system, and 2) playing with Deron Williams. Yes, Diaw played with Nash, but D-Will and Nash’s styles are different. We have to assume that, like Al Jefferson, Diaw will benefit from playing with D-Will and the Jazz.
Given the luxury tax situation, I think this is a solid move. I wish it were for a bit of a different player too, but Diaw is solid, and I think this benefits the Jazz overall, which is important.
Any news on Dampier?
Thanks
Justin
Good to read your statistics, Andy!! I miss the Jazzbots the way they used to be! I hope some of the other stuff outside of statistics will play a part such as confidence, strength, and a real desire to play for the Jazz. I guess it may be getting us under some of the cap money and making way for a larger salary player next year. Once again, Andy, it is great to read all you figuring. Linda Kay
Thank heavens it is getting close!!!!!
I agree with you Andy, I think AK is a better player than Diaw and if this trade goes through, I just hope we get other pieces too.
I would love if we got Boris Diaw, Aaron Afflalo, and Damion James. I would be fine with trading AK then.
Thanks for doing this Andy. You know from my Twitter ramblings all day that I do not agree with this trade. I tweeted to Locke that I thought AK was worth 4-5 wins a season looks like the numbers support me.
Goodbye to D-Will if we don’t make the playoffs.
Saw a tweet that Utah is holding up the trade hopefully the are getting us more that Diaw and Quinton Freakin Ross!
I like how when it comes to trading AK, the positive point everyone brings up about trading him is that its gonna save money. I could care less if it saves money, its not mine and its not yours. As far as I’m concerned pay AK more, hes much better than Diaw. The only thing i can see is the injury factor, and with that case alone i dont think its worth it.
Keep AK
trade him for danny granger. Danny Granger TO UTAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he is just what we need. he is a scoring machine and can lift some of the offense off of deron. ive read many things that say we would be a serious contender if we had a wing that was a good scorer. danny granger signed a contract that was a 5 year deal for 60-65 million. BRING HIM TO UTAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Depending on whom you listen to, the Jazz will be saving between 14-18 million dollars in this deal. That alone, is reason to make this deal. It gives us flexibility to make other moves. Diaw is a solid NBA player, who very rarely has been injured. I believe playing with D-Will, and within the Jazz system, his numbers will likely increase. But the bottom line, is the enormous financial savings this deal brings. The Jazz will likely now match any deal that Fesenko might receive, where they may not have before. If Ross is thrown in, that’s just that much better. He’s a very good defensive player. Also, with Okur’s status uncertain, this deal gives us a guy who can fill in up front, and who has a much better skill set then Elson or Fesenko. It also gives us another guy who is excellent at finding his teammates, and assisting. At times, Diaw plays like a “point” forward. I am concerned about his weight issues and conditioning, but I would expect the Jazz would have done their homework in this regard, and must be satisfied with his physical condition, or they would have never agreed to the trade in the first place.
Diana – where did you see the tweet about Utah holding up the deal? I hope that’s not true…
So… when I first heard about the deal my “gut” reaction, was no way, and especially not to a division rival.
My “eyeballing it” sense was that when AK plays well, meaning active and involved in the game, the Jazz won. So I took a closer look. Again, rough and unscientific – points. If AK scored in double figures he was probably involved and active. Last season there were 36 games where AK scored in double figures with the Jazz winning 23 and losing 13. Not bad. In 6 games, AK scored over 20 and the Jazz won every single one of those games. When he’s “on” he moves the flow of the game.
Problem is – for 18 million, that might not be enough of an impact. It’s certainly not as much as I was expecting after he had played at an all-star level early in his career.
So maybe it is time for him to go – I’m not emotionally invested in any one Jazz player, but I’m deeply emotionally invested in Jazz winning.
Good analysis. Some say Diaw is always out of shape nowadays, too slow to be a 3, though he seems to shoot decently from outside. Some say Ross (part of this trade rumor) displays stupendous D, which would offset some of Diaw’s being not as hot as AK D-wise.
The other blog about this trade has comments pointing out the trade isn’t possible because the salaries don’t match. So then arises some rumor that JR Smith comes to the Jazz as well. Err…
AK(age 29) for Diaw(28), Smith(25), Ross(29). $1 million saved. What’s <> your <> gut say?
Again, nice post.
I caught the very end of the TCU/SMU game and saw this trade rumor at the bottom of the screen. At that moment I was furious at the trade. But now I think it’s a pretty decent deal. Diaw isn’t as good as AK, but AK will almost certainly miss 20-30+ games this year like he does every year. Diaw played every game last year for Charlotte. Plus it gets us below the luxory tax, and there is a good chance we can sign AK to a new contract next summer and end up with both AK and Diaw. The only thing I still hate about it is that I will have to see AK in a Denver jersey. That disgusts me
If J.R. smith came to utah, i wouldnt be a jazz fan anymore.
personally im not that big of a diaw fan but thats just my opinion. i would rather keep ak this year and sign him for much less money at the end of next year, like he says he would do because he WANTS to STAY in utah. also read this article at ksl that says ak didnt even know that he was involved in any trade rumors, neither did his agent
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=304&sid=12567456
totally agree about if smith comes to utah, i would not be a fan
I’m not down with this trade unless there is someone else with it or the Jazz are planning to make a separate trade after because the bottom line is the Jazz or noticeable worse with this deal. PERIOD. THE JAZZ ARE NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD WITH THIS TRADE.
Really JR to Utah…that would be nuts I’m not sure what to think about one. Part of me likes it but part doesn’t. I think Jerry may keep him in check though.
AK > Diaw… AK will already resign for less next year, Its a contract year, if he wants to maintaina decent check he will have to perform. Hes a better 3 than Diaw can be. Diaw had similar stats and a lot more minutes. I do agree AK is becoming a glass cannon. Kills you when hes on but hes fragile. That being said, anyone can get injured at any time. We could trade and Diaw goes down just like Brewer did for Charlotte.
KOC always says he wont trade stars for just any bad deals and this is a bad deal. Denver and the Nets get everything and we get squat.
I’ll be disapointed if this goes through.
I was reading on hoopshype.com that the Jazz may not get just Diaw in this trade but potential JR Smith, Arron Afflalo and/or Quinton Ross. Afflalo is one of the best defenders in the league and he can score about 10ppg. I’d love to add him to our team. Without adding another piece to this trade that would make Utah better immediately it’s NOT worth it. AK brings too much to the table. The Jazz are smarter than to make this trade and just let our squade become worse. They must have more up their sleave KOC is smarter than that. Have some confidence in that much my friends.
I was pretty underwhelmed by this trade. If I am thinking right, that means we will only have one probable starter (D. Will) that started more than half of the Utah JAzz games last year. This seems to leave Utah with a serious lack of hops.
Deb you’re right but Utah is working harder than ever to make a great team this year and I have a feeling we’re not done yet. They have made too many moves to stop right now. It seems as if we’re positioning ourselves for one more solid semi-big move. AK is too big of a piece of what Utah does to just move him for some money and a mediocre player. We’re up to something.
CBS sports is reporting that this trade is not likely to go through tonight, and that a 5th team may be brought in to appease the teams that are dragging their feet.
Yeah it won’t be done till tomorrow at the earliest. Most likely a 5th team will have to be brought in. Being that NJ is getting rid of their PG (Devon Harris) they want a decent one in return and the Bobcats are not wanting to give up DJ Augustine. Hopefully Utah is still looking for more than Diaw and Q Ross (unless Utah is going to do something with the AK money)
Based on the latest reports, it’s the inclusion of Augustine that’s holding up the works. I have not heard anyone else coming to the Jazz except Diaw and Ross. I’m not sure where these J.R. Smith rumors are coming from. The Jazz would never trade for a character like him. I also don’t anticipate that another immediate deal is in the works. It’s basically a straight up Boris Diaw for Kirilenko swap (with some other possible minor assests thrown in to make things work under the cap).
What Jazz managment is thinking:
Saving a massive amount of money (14-18 million), and getting back a good NBA player whose stats are in the same range as the player their trading. In their minds it’s a no-brainer. From a financial stand point it creates flexibility, and from a basketball angle they are getting a guy who they feel is more durable. Not to mention, he and Raja Bell seemed to have good chemistry when they played in both Phoenix and Charlotte together. I really don’t understand why Jazz fans are responding in such a negative manner to this trade. Does it make them Jazz any better? No…probably not. Does it make them any worse? No…I really don’t think so. But what it does do, is give them more leverage to make moves in the future.
First things first there are more than a few stats with this evaluation that are wrong
AK’s per for the 09-10 season was actually 18.25 and this stat is terribly inflated due to two things, first AK played considerably less minutes than Diaw and second he played far fewer games.
This matter because like any average the more minutes you log or the more games you play the average starts high then drops over the season. More prood to this point Hollinger projected AK to finish with a 16.02 per which had he played he full season, we wouldnt have been far off.
Also the other stats that are skewed within this are the fact the Diaw played on the first team for the entire season while AK was moved to a starter much further down the road and then was limited by injury the rest of the season. So again if you play against an opposing squads first team your playing the best players while AK came off the bench against the other teams second unit.
Not saying AK isnt the better player because he is but Diaw acutally isnt that far off. Pople are a tendancy to over value AK and think he is an “elite” player and we should get guys like Granger or Wallace. Hes a great role player but misses on average about 25 percent of his games over the last 6 years.
On a side note if im O’Konnor there is no way I do this deal if other players arent involved. Diaw is a very skilled defender and a better on the ball player than AK and handles the ball just as well, given his size (6-8) I think he could log time at the 3, but unless afflalo or others are involved I think the Jazz should nix this deal.
I’ve posted this previously, but right now we have an AK who plays at a $9-10M level getting paid $17.8M. (IMO)
Trading AK now means we can get back $18M worth of players. Not trading AK means we could only get back in a trade what he re-signs for. In a nutshell, you could trade him for a Pau Gasol now, but could only trade him for a Brendan Haywood later.
The best option would be to trade Kirilenko straight up for someone who plays at a $17.8M level (eg Pau Gasol). This is the hardest trade to do as those are franchise players OR similarly over-paid players (eg Rashard Lewis).
Second best is to trade AK for two players who’s play is up to par with their salary, like a $7M player and a $9M player.
The more you dilute his salary across more players, the less impactful any of those players will be, so two players are better than three, etc.
Additionally, if the Jazz trade AK, I’d want them to address some of their most pressing needs. A ‘true’ shot-blocking center with a post-up game. A scoring wing who can play defense.
So…if they could pick up a true shot-blocking center worth $9M per year and a $7M scoring wing, I’d be happy with the trade.
Does Diaw/Ross/Afflalo/Smith fit any of this? Not in my mind, but who knows what KOC could pull off with those new pieces.
Kc,
I’d love to get a 18 mill player too for AK but that isn’t going to happen. And no Diaw/Ross/Afflalo/Smith doesn’t fit the need you want (and the need a believe we need. But it’s apparently the closest thing available. Diaw is the closest thing to Memo out there (we know Utah loves him for some reason) Afflalo is a solid all around player, my favorite of all, Smith can be a terrific shooter and scorer but is highly inconsistent and Ross is also a defensive STUD. When all is said and done they all have something we need. That’s what makes this very interesting. All of these player can come at a relatively decent price. The only question is with this many players what 3 on our current roster do you get rid of?
Jason,
There’s only one problem with all this. The Jazz CANNOT save 14-18 million because the Collective Bargaining Agreement requires that the overall monitary value of the trade comes with 20% of one another meaning that we will have to accept players that are withing 20% of AK’s 17.8 million.
if this deal gets done,this will be a good one for the jazz
Van Muhle is absolutely right in his comment, and I only wanted to add that Diaw has been playing in below-average team, while AK was playing in an above-average team. This effect magnifies AK’s stats, while it acts the other way for Diaw’s. So the extrapolation on less wins for Utah with Diaw than with AK is absolutely erroneous … unless you can put AK in last year’s Diaw’s shoes in Charlotte environnment and vice-versa, which is not possible.
Statistics are fine … but don’t let them tell more than they can, don’t extrapolate !
Diaw can be a Sloan-type player, and may be excited to play for a much better team. These guys have brains and psychologies … they are not just money and stats !
Nice one Andy i’m glad some one understands all this and, took the time to show other fans why AK is so important. One thing though Colten why wouldn’t you be a jazz fan if JR jioned the team I’m against this trade but, if i said on the other one if they threw in JR i might be more out to accept it. he is similiar to Danny granger just less consistant. The guy has the potential come out and, give you 25 30 pionts a night. Being in a Jerry Sloan system wich prettty much means no BS off the court might be just what he needs.
Also Henri if Diaw is playing for a below average team he should stand out more then what he did if he is anything like AK playing on a sub-par team he should put up stats that AK did when he play for the sub-par jazz team wich was close to 20 points 7 rebounds and 4 assist a game. if you paly for a below average team and, your are putting up stats comparable to a guy on a great team you aren’t as good as the one on a great team. Because the great team has more weapons to go to instead of just one or two guys. the main thing i didn’t like about this unless the jazz are planning on making other moves after this one is the fact that Diaw played a 4 spot for most of his career. i think he can play the three but, it’s going to take some time to ajust to it and, if we want to win games we need palyers that can come in and, start providing help right away not players you need to work with and, help ajust into anther position.last thing i do like what Colten said about the whole money thing forget about it the Yankees and Red Socks in baseball dump a ton of cash into their teams to be the best so if we can afford it wh don’t we do the same thing. well that and, stay under the cap but, yeah you have enough money to keep AK but, the jazz still don’t want to it makes no sense
@ Trevor
Imagine you are a great passer, but nobody in your team is able to catch the ball … you will have assist’s statistics much below your real value.
The collective aspect of the game has an impact on each individual’s performance (and, of course, vice-versa) … this is what is called “a complex systems”, whose effects are governed by the interactions between its elements, rather than by its elements in a direct way. I am not inventing anything, it has been applied to big companies.
First: For everyone that is saying that AK and his agent didn’t even know about this possible trade. They don’t need to be contacted to be traded. Remember when we traded Brewer. He was getting on the plane to go to the next city when he got a call that he was traded.
Ok, I think this a good a bad trade. It depends on how AK plays next year. If we keep him and he’s injured again. Bad. If we get rid of him and he plays amazing. Bad. If we keep him and he plays great. Good. If we get Diaw and Ross and they play great and AK plays Mediocre or is injured. Good.
It just depends on how they play in our system and if AK is injured or not.
I’d like to keep him but if he’s just going to get injured and be out 22 games again, than just get rid of him and resign him next summer when he’s a free agent.
I want players that are in most every night and producing. Not a player that misses 1/4 of the season and only produces great in a 1 month stretch.
Did anyone else read somewhere that Utah might get more than just Diaw in this deal?
Anything on that? (That makes this very interesting..)
@ Henri, good stuff.
With the logic you just put in Imagine Al’s stats this year. Just saying
Yeah if we are going to take a player from NJ it better be T-will not Quinton Ross
@Justin I know that It’s Diaw and Quentin Ross and rumored to be JR Smith.
Thanks Andrew. While JR Smith is a bit of a punk (he recently choked someone at practice or a pick up game ) he is crazy athletic, and a good outside shooter. If we got JR I would be crazy excited about this trade.
Being reported from the NBA insiders>>>>Jazz are going to be left out of the trade and Denver is going to accept taking Boris Diaw.
@ Jason here i the tweet by NYDNInterNets – he is a reporter for the NY Daily New that covers the Nets
Denver and Utah holding up the deal at this point. Other teams on board. Denver wants better deal. Don’t understand their Noah fascination
about 15 hours ago via web
Depending what source you go to, there are many variables that are holding up the trade, of course New Jersey wants to get it done, if you were going to obtain one of the leagues top superstar players, wouldn’t you??
Some sources say its Denver as they are trying to see if they can add some pieces into the mix to keep Carmelo in Denver, they were in talks with Detroit to get Rip Hamilton, but they right now has fallen through….Im sure they are talking to other teams trying to get some other pieces…..
Some sources say its done with the Jazz out of the mix cause the numbers wont work with Utah only getting Boris Diaw out of the trade and Denver is not truly committed to accepting AK’s 17 million dollar salary
If this trade does happen, I see Utah being left out of the mix unless more players or a couple more teams are put into the mix because the Jazz have to get at least 80% of AK’s salary in return and with just Diaw its about 50%.
JR Smith is a mediocre shooter who puts up lots of bad shots and happens to make a few of them. He has a bad attitude and no discipline. The team is better off without him.
just found this http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/39351537/sports/player_news
That article came out when it was in question whether Carmelo would sign the extention, New Jersey did not want to pull the trigger on a trade without assurance that Carmelo was going to stick around and not leave when he is a free agent in July. Carmelo agreed to sign the extention, hence is the story line behind that article.
One stat missed is production per dollar salary. Since AK gets about twice as much, this would level out their values.
Also, AK has been incredibly fragile the last few years, an injury waiting to happen.
Another health factor is the financial health of the franchise. If this saves $9m salary, + $9m tax + about $3m distribution, that’s about $21m!!!
None of us will have a great interest in rooting for the Kansas City Jazz.
AK is the better player, no doubt, but is he the better value?
A 4 team trade is incredibly complex. I would guess that somehow one of the teams goes under the cap during the trade sequence, perhaps the Nets, suspending the 125% CBA salary matching requirements, a non-simultaneous trade or a traded player exception, perhaps Charlot, is involved.
If the trade goes through, the Jazz gain financially and get some roster flexibility, but without further moves, are probably not as competitive.
If they wait, they still will have opportunities at the trade deadline to dump salary or a get better trade.
It’s a hard decision for Kevin and Greg, but it’s always good to see them exploring possibilities.
Jazzaholic
One other thing.
If the NBA reduces sharing from 57% to 50%, eliminates exemptions and goes to a hard cap, we may look back on this as a great move.
Jazzaholic
Your looking too far into the statistics game. While I’m not sold completely on this trade, I wouldn’t mind it either. I know for sure that the Jazz would not be 4-8 wins worse by going through with this trade. It would save about 8 million dollars, and we would get a lot more durable and consistent player in Diaw. Sure AK can be great, but he is so inconsistent and he always misses a significant portion of the games every year. Personally, I would LOVE for Charlotte to be left out of this trade completely and instead we get Devin Harris and run him and D-Will at the 1 and 2 spots. But I know that wont happen
Very interesting…I’m on the fence on this one.
@ Cade: I could not agree more!!!
Henri come on if you are in the NBA i hope you would be able to catch the ball these aren’t some kids off the street these guys are getting paid millions of dollars to play ball. they can catch a ball,plus he only averaged two assist a game he isn’t a passer he is a scorer. If he was a piont guard you might have a piont there but, yourpiont hold no water when he mostly scores the ball and doesn’t pass it. when your not the go to guy on your team of course your stats and, the effect you have on the game isn’t going to be as high then if you are the go to guy on a team and, besides Walice Diaw was one of the main go to guys on the bobcats he should have put up much better numbers then what he did. with AK you have Dwill Boozer even Paul and, okur in front of him it’s harder to look like a star when you don’t touch the ball harldy at all. Good analigy though really enjoyed it to bad it can’t be applied to this situtation
HERE is why this trade is HORRIBLE>
http://sean-and-jake.blogspot.com/
I’m not sure why we have six different blogs going on for this topic. Anyways, even though most of the comments from the other posts are the same things with a different avatar next to them, I did find one thing of interest. I hope Steve doesn’t mind me quoting his comment, but it was an answer I was looking for.
Steve says:
September 25, 2010 at 11:02 am
ok, i gotta explain something… We DO NOT have to bring back salary within 20% of ak’s 17.8 million! A team recieving a certain salary has to match that salary within 20% unless they have the cap room. If a trade is involving multiple teams, like this, than you can break up salary among those teams you need to match up those salaries. And the “break up” comes from new jersey. They are dealing the salary to match carmelo’s 16 mil but among 2 teams.
I will try to break it down and explain.
Ak and Favors combine for somewhere around 22 million. Since denver is over the cap they will have to deal 20% of that total. Carmelo is getting 16, so there will probably be a player thrown in.
Carmelo is going to New Jersey with his 16 mil. The nets are trading Favors and Harris which combine for 13 mil. So they are in the 20%, and they have an extra 1.5 mil in cap space.
Harris is going to Charlotte for 9 mil. And Charlotte is dealing Diaw at 9.5 to us.
So we don’t have to bring back 20% of 17 million, we can dump his salary in this trade.
Now we can do it… but the question is why??? why would we want to do this???
Thanks, Steve. So no, I don’t see the Jazz bringing back anyone else besides Diaw and possibly Ross in this trade. If they bring them both back, they can absorb Ross with a trade exception and cut their salary costs by nearly 8 million; they are over the cap by 17 million, so they also reduce their fine dollar for dollar. 16 million(?) in savings, and they still get Diaw.
Keep in mind, YES Boris Diaw cost us less money, but he still costs 9 million a year. He is NOT worth that. So we are just dumping a bad contract of a player that helps us a lot, for another bad, but smaller, contract of someone that doesnt bring much to the table for the Jazz
Where did this guy get the idea of Aaron Afflalo or Smith, I have looked and looked for this information. Plus, why in the world would we want a head case, like JR that is going to cause problems on and off the floor, take bad shots, and not play defense.
This trade rumor is turning out to be just that, a rumor, so lets all just stop talking about it and move on with our happy little lives.
Lets just trade AK strait up for Carmelo…..haha
Jeff and Steve:
It’s 125% plus $100,000 for the match, not 20%.
There is a sequence to a 4 team trade, they don’t just throw all the players/salaries into pot and divide them up!
They have to stage the various teams/trades to take advantage of the 125% + $100,000, traded player exemptions etc. to get the maximum mileage from the trade and just make it work.
The two instigators, NJ and Denver, could be the last part of a 4 to 8 trade sequence to complete the trade.
A trade sitting this long probably is already dead, but we really don’t have enough information on even exactly who and what is involved in the trade, if it ever goes down, to make any intelligent speculation.
Jazzaholic
Despite your stats, I say trade his butt. Perhaps just look for a better deal than that garbage that Mark Stein was reporting.
Is AK better than Diaw, yes. Is Diaw serviceable, yes. I think that this trade is more about saving $s and getting Carmello Anthony out of Denver than about Diaw coming in to save the Jazz. Last season the Northwest division was the toughest by a long way, with 4 playoff teams (Jazz, Nuggets, Blazers, Thunder). AK’s production is not what makes the Jazz tick, and the drop-off to Diaw is almost insignificant. In my opinion, it is worth taking a small hit to remove Denver from the playoff picture. Also, our main problem the last three years has been getting obliterated by the Lakers in the playoffs, and I think that Diaw, with his size and length will be a better player vs. the Lakers. So even if he is weaker against most of the NBA, I think he helps us (slightly) against the Lakers, which is another reason I would pull the trigger on this deal.
AK hasn’t done anything for the past 3 years. we’re paying the guy 17 million dollars which is a couple million more than D-will. i cannot wait to get rid of this guy
This is KOC’s response to the trade rumor (along with AK’s reaction to still being with the Jazz to start camp):
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-jazzreturn