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John or Deron? Whats in the Bag?
Posted by: Ben S. on March 28th, 2011
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.Playoffs, game 7. 4th quarter. ESA is packed full and rockin; everybody on their feet. Thunderstruck is blaring. Bear, risking his life, is on the top step of the giant ladder holding up giant signs. Boler is buckling up. Harpring is doing fry sauce shots. David Locke is breathing into a brown paper bag. Hot Rod is drinking from something in a brown paper bag. Complete strangers are kissing on the jumbotron.
Ok, so that scene aint gonna happen this year. Well, all except the Hot Rod part. If you’re like me, you might have taken those moments for granted over the years and are starting to realize how much you’re going to miss it this season. Hopefully this is the bottom of the tank for the Jazz and they start to fill it back up. Young guys getting better, new guys getting more comfortable, and a good draft pick or two should give this franchise enough of a kick in the pants to get back to the post-season in 2012; unless there is no post-season due to a lock-out or the world coming to an end.
Who are the best 5 on the Jazz right now? I know it depends on match-ups and who’s hot, but assuming everyone is healthy (including Memo), what 4th quarter line-up gives the Jazz the best chance to win a close game? I’ve noticed that most coaches tend to play a player they trust over a player who might be more talented at the end of a tight one. Most fans seem to want the opposite. That’s part of the fun of the game for us, trying to make coaches decisions from the stands or our recliner. If I was coach Corbin, here’s the guys I would go with to close out a tight game:
F-Kirilenko. His play-making, defense and versatility is a must have. He is also not afraid to take a big shot, which I consider a skill, although it can hurt the team sometimes. AK doesn’t seem to get too tired, but when he does he’ll choose to give max effort on the defensive end, opposite of most NBA players.
F-Millsap. Paul has become the best clutch performer for the Jazz. When they absolutely need a basket, I want the ball in his hands. He’s probably the best shooter on the team. I am still amazed that he seems to get no love from the officials.
C-Jefferson. The best center the Jazz have ever had. Yeah, I know. That is like saying who’s the tallest mid… nevermind. I am aware that it is years too early to give big Al that distinction but when have we had a shot-blocking, rebounding, 20 pt. scorer in the middle? He can get that crazy jump hook of his off whenever he wants and is starting to get better at pick-n-rolls and passing out of the double team. I’d like to see him develop a move on the other side of the key to use once or twice per game.
G-Devin Harris. Although he still looks uncomfortable running any of the Jazz plays, and his defense SUCKS, I still think he’s our best option at PG due to his speed and natural play-making ability. Although a great back-up, Earl Watson is just too limited in his ability to break down the defense. Harris is one of my favorite interviews on the team, which helps his cause.
G-Raja Bell. I would almost rather see the Jazz run with only 4 out there sometimes than see what our shooting guards have to offer at the end of close games. Raja gets the nod over CJ for the sole reason that he is SO FREAKING DUE to hit a big shot that I think the next one he takes will go in. When Miles gets it rolling, you could argue he should be in there but I still think he goes outside the offense too much and settles for tough jumpers late in games instead of taking the ball to the hole. Plus Raja’s new facial hair style looks fantastic.
The best Jazz line-up of all-time to win one playoff game?
F-Karl Malone
F-Adrian Dantley
C-Mark Eaton
G-Darrell Griffith
G-Deron Williams
I can’t believe I chose D-Will over Stockton. Maybe I’ve been sniffing too much glue but Deron could take over games in so many ways. Somebody might change my mind about that by tomorrow. I had to choose the Golden Griff over Horny because having A.D. and Horny in there at the same time would make the line-up too slow. Big Mark over Big Al was an easy choice due to the Mailman and Dantley already fighting each other for space down low (I like my beats fast and my space down low). Al would be in the way.
Darrell Griffith
Check out this picture of him jumping over a guy in a USA game
…….. Ladies and gentleman, Jimmer has left the building. Great season by the Cougars.
Replies: 18
Views: 1008
18 Responses
dude…you are gonna get blasted hard for this post…that’s all i’m gonna say
D-Will is my favorite player, but I cannot defend him on this one! HA the NBA’s all time assist leader, steals leader, Jazz’s all time 3 point shot leader, 2 time western conference champion point guard deserves to be in that spot of jazz greatest! Oh and just remember the shot he hit against the rockets right in front of charles Barkley from even farther then “Jimmer Range” to send us to the finals hahaha but i think the rest of the team is solid. I am a fan of maravich though.
Have to agree Stockton is a no brainer over D Will. I liked Deron until he became a headcase, but even in the best of days I would have chosen John Stockton over him. I watched Deron to many games let other players get into his head and make him look foolish. Rose did it when we played Chicago earlier this season. Cant recall that happening to John, John usually was the one to make others look foolish, time and again. Actually it would probably have been John Stockton that got me watching Basketball all together and started my Jazz Fandomship.. heh, probably not a word, but means I became a fan..
It’s tough to debate this one buy I’ll try anyway. If you switched Deron for John on the 1997-98 finals teams would they be be better or worse? I’d argue slightly better. John never had to carry the burden of being the teams best player and leader for even one game. That was always the Mailman.
It takes a lot of guts to post a line-up like this. I’ll bet you’d have a lot more supporters if you would have posted it about 4 months ago.
I think I could argue each position (besides the Mailman) all day. But my initial thought is to put D-Will at the 2 and keep John at the point. I love Griff and he was a scoring machine but Jazz have always played best when they’ve had 2 guards in the game that can each run the offence, score, pass, and take the big shot. #12 & #8 both play tough D but I’d say Stock has the edge… for now.
No matter what, at least this gives us somthing fun to talk about be sides the Jazz “youth”. Thanks for sharing.
@Ben S. I HIGHLY recommend watching the last 4 minutes of the Rockets game where Stockton hit the game winner. Looked who carried the offensive load down the stretch. Not Malone, it was Stockton. You’re way off on your assumption of Stockton “never had to carry the burden of being the teams best player.”
There is two other things you should consider, Leadership and defense. John stockton was able to lead the team, and had the ability to make others better… Deron had a chance to do that, but I feel that he failed to do that in a positive manner. Would the Mail man have been the Mail Man without Stockton? Your also just looking at one player in comparison to the PG position. How about the rest of the team? Would the rest of the team have been better or worse with Deron Leading them or Stockton…
I think Stockton was a positive leader for the team. It was like John was the loving mother who led by example and held things together, while Malone was the hard father always cracking the whip. Remember Malone and his comments about Ostertag yr after yr. He could be a tough guy to play with. Now amplify that with Williams whipping the ball at players, and his tongue lashings. I think Stockton is the better team player and leader hands down.. I think Stockton could be considered the better defender also..
But as in most of these posts, there is no way to prove it. So unless you have a better arguement, I will stick with my original post of Stockton is best…
Best opening Ive ever read… Priceless. Id love to hit the brown bag with ol` Hot Rod, and hit the sauce w Harpring. Your Posts are always hilarious, keep em` coming. I`d take Stock over D-will.
I’m surprised Hot Rod hasn’t been found drunk and passed out on the side of the road by now.
I think your hurt some feelings….LOL
Nice. Laughed really hard at the fry-sauce-brown-paper-bag line. You have def been blasted for D-will over Stock, but I like the gusto and brass. How about adding a bench into the mix. Also, no one commented on it, but I LOVED the “space down low” line. Classic.
I always look forward to your originality and humor. Great post again. However, watch your back because you might have angered the Jazz Gods. Stockton is the most beloved player ever (my fave player as well), and opinions on D-Will are not too favorable right now. However, after trying to take emotion out of it, I realized you are not as crazy as I first thought. I would still go with Stockton, because you go with trust over talent, as you mentioned. I have trust that John would get the ball to the right scorers at the right time.
@ JC Swan, I see your point, and as stated above, I would take Stockton over D-Will as well. However I disagree that Stockton had to carry to burden of being the team’s best player. That role includes so much more than just on the court leadership. Stockton avoided media and fans like a plague (still does). We all know Mailman never saw a microphone he didn’t like, but he also willingly took on the role of the face as the franchise. He answered the questions after tough losses, and even interacted a lot more with the fans than Stock. Embracing that role can be more difficult than people realize. Look what happened to D-Will when he was the clear-cut face of the franchise. Disaster struck. No more Boozer to take the blame. Just think of Game 6 of ‘98 Finals. I still hear Jazz fans bring up that Jordan stole the ball from Malone with the Jazz up 1 and 20 seconds left to set the stage for Jordan’s famous (infamous?) push off and jumper over B-Russ. Yet no one ever mentions that Stock had a great look from up top to win the game after Jordan’s shot, but missed. Once again, Mailman shouldered the blame. That’s not a diss on Basketball John. He’s still my favorite player, but I think it’s easy to overlook the franchise player that Malone was for almost 20 years.
Stockton was a leader by example his not talking to the media shows me nothing other then he was humble and shy! but he never lacked confidence and he showed you why…Anybody can have the skills to get up there and talk to the media every day but that doesn’t mean they can be a leader! Stock was a floor general and was always communicating on d and offense how do you think he got the most points and steals by far in NBA history! Yeah Malone was the face of the Franchise and shouldered the scoring load and blame most of the time, He was the vocal leader for sure but the leader by example and the glue for the team was stockton! Coming into this year D-will’s only real criticism was that he was not enough of a leader for this team, he responded very well at first being more vocal and scoring like crazy, but when things get bad he rips into hayward by hucking the ball at him as hard as he can? I love d will but you don’t do that, during the next TO you take him aside and rip him there like the good leaders kobe, timmy d, and kg would do. I still think he is going to be a great player and vocal leader wherever he ends up, he already leads well by example! but he was no more of a good vocal leader then stockton! remember most years deron had a very similar role to stockton when Boozer was our leading scorer…
I knew I’d take heat for picking D-Will over Stock. My house has been egged, my friends pretend they don’t know me, and when I got home from work my wife had thrown all my stuff out in the street. The feelings Jazz fans (including me)have for St. John run deep. Everybody’s made good points and arguments. I thought someone could change my mind, and after taking in all the comments and putting more thought into it, I would take Stockton over Deron for a 15 year stretch. But if it came down to 1 must win playoff game, D-Will is still my man. If you combined his size and more aggressive scoring style with a shooter/playmaker like Horny and an unstoppable scorer like the Mailman, he would put more fear into opponents than Johnny would. I enjoyed all the well thought out, passionate feedback. Next time lets debate Stockton vs. Nash.
No comparation, Stock is the best
I wish we had Players who read these things. I bet if you asked players who they respected more, and thought was the better player, it would be stockton. Have you forgotten all the “dirtiest player in the league” comments about him.. LOL Deron may have size on him, and even play hard, but Stockton was the tough one, no doubt in my mind..
Doc Rivers and Avery Johnson, both coaches who played against John have each said similar things about D-Will adding an element to the Jazz offense that they never had. I’ve been trying to find their exact quotes but haven’t been able too. Frustrated. I also remember Doc saying he got more amped up to play against Stockton than any other player he faced.
Ben, you just earned a lot of respect from me for having the… guts… to pick D-Will over Stockton. To me, I’d say it all depends on the situation. If they were looking to take a buzzer-beating 3 or the opposing team had a big inside, I’d pick Deron. But Stockton and Deron could almost do the same thing in the clutch, and to be honest, I’d be happy to have either one of them right now!