Meet
Monson “Trade AL and Sap” (Tacorev,Dallan,Kc,Jazzaholic and Co)
Posted by: Chase on January 3rd, 2013
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.Alright my fellow Jazzaholics, I am like many of you and don’t care much for the useless suggested trades that are posted on here (I am guilty of them myself however but hear me out). BUT, there are some suggestions that frankly, do make sense. As a franchise and a fan base I know that we’re all ready for some progression and in order to do that we may need to temporarily regress. I would really like for as many of you to participate and give me your thought out and logical suggestions/feedback if you wouldn’t mind.
I came across an article today written by Gordon Monson and it really got me thinking again about what we need to do as a franchise in order to take the next big step. And it will hopefully take us from early, first round playoff exits. Let’s try to judge dispassionately if we can my fellow fans. Personally my heart just loves Milsap and everything he’s done for us and in some ways Jefferson I care about as well, but in the best interest of the team I’m not sure either one of us are doing anything but holding us back at this point…..again I’m not sure and that’s why I’d like your feedback. Below is a link to the article that got me to start thinking. Have a read and tell me what you think.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55564947-87/jazz-jefferson-millsap-trade.html.csp
Personally I actually agree with Mr. Monson here (which I think he’s a buffoon often but he’s spot on here)
What do y’all think? I know there’s some very astute and knowledgeable Jazz fans on here that I’d love to hear from some of the men that I posted in the subject line (and I’m sure there are those that I left out and I’d still love to hear from you)
Replies: 22
Views: 647
22 Responses
*either one of them (not “)us”…Excuse my typos…I throw most of these posts together at work, while multitasking and being sneaky in order to be online.
The point Monson seems to be making is that we need to look to continue the development of the team through acquiring the talent through the draft. That didn’t work for us last season. The team failed to acquire the higher draft pick that would have got allowed us a shot at Lillard, one of the few players at the top end of the draft that would have made a difference to us, and not resulted in a backlog of players jammed in one position where we are strong. Teams at the top end of the draft either didn’t want to make a deal or they wanted too much for that deal and the Jazz were unable or unwilling to give up what was needed. The problem with not having the draft pick of your own and giving up assets to get one is that you aren’t guaranteed to get the player you want at the end of it all. Any team above Portland could have taken Lilliard, so we could have made a trade with GSW to keep that pick that wasn’t or we could have made a trade with Portland and it could still have been for naught Unless you have that high draft pick for yourself there is nothing guaranteed about the draft process, even the players that you put all your energy into researching can be a bust when they arrive in the NBA. With all that in mind I can’t agree with Monson here. You don’t put all your hopes and dreams for success on one strategy. If concentrating on the draft worked for all and sundry every team that wasn’t successful would try it. The Clippers had high lottery picks year on year, it took the combination of Blake Griffin and Chris Paul and others to turn that franchise around. The likes of Washington, Sacramento and Charlotte are perennial high lottery pickers and yet these teams are going nowhere. It takes a little luck drafting the right guy but also a combination of other strategies to get the right balance in team creation.
Right now the team has 8 expiring contracts and that has opened up the cap space for the team to exhaust other strategies which up until now the Jazz haven’t been able to explore in the past. Whilst other teams have been able to trade for franchise building players the Jazz have been on the outside looking in on those deals for years because of expensive contracts that kept them out of such games. An opportunity has presented itself that the Jazz would be stupid to at least not explore, just to follow the old route of picking up draft players. Apparently this upcoming draft isn’t that strong. Why go down that route this season if there was the possibility of building a team around say Chris Paul instead?
I like to read what Monson has to say, but there is a reason he is a journalist and not one making basketball decisions.
Steven…you’re right that is the point he’s making. However, we can’t trade Al, Sap or both for just draft picks. The money does have to match. Therefor we’d be bringing back contracts in addition to picks. For example Milsap to Portland for their future 1st round pick and Mathews. The money has to come close or the trade won’t go through.
Good feedback though
And if Utah had the slightest chance of getting Chris Paul I would absolutely support that, but we simply do not. The Jazz will look to utilize our cap space next year (which they will likely save for our current youngs) AND the current assets that we have now…..all of our expiring contracts; specifically Al and Sap are the most valuable. This is how this team always builds.
We just so happen to be in one of the best positions that this franchise has EVER been in with all the cap space we have AND assets.
The Jazz are in great position to make a move IF a great one is out there. Unfortunately nothing seemingly great has popped up just yet, but it will as we get closer to the deadline.
Dallas could use another big with Dirk (Sap or Al) but they do have Brand and Kaman although the haven’t been too good.
I agree with this. I’ve been preaching this for quite some time now. And whose to say our Starting Line Up would get weaker from starting Kanter-Favors instead of Paul-Big Al. I’ve seen in a number of games this year, our starters dig our selves into a deep 10 to 15 point hole, only to be dug out when we put our youngsters such as Favors, Kanter, Hayward, Burks, Evens, and Demarre in. They actually bring a little bit of energy and hustle and refreshing to watch.
Its not a coincidence that four of the best Jazz players happen to be lottery picks.
I agree with Monson, and I think what is not being seen by most is that he sees value in draft picks—not only insofar as each individual pick is a superstar, but in terms of each picks potential: does anyone remember why Stern vetoed Lakers CP3 trade….cuz he wanted 1st round picks. So even if Jazz didnt trade Al amd Millsap for Lillard having picks has value. Say (FOR INSTANCE HYPOTHETICALLY), Jazz had somehow gotten 3 future 1st round picks by trading Al and Millsap past draft (or even now, although teams will not sacrifice 1st round picks for them unless Jazz take back contracts), and could package five 1st round picks to get a Rondo or the like??
So you see picks have value outside actual individual players being drafted. Jazz screwed up. CP3 played on a consistant playing team in NO, and that wasnt good enough, now in LA with a top seed team that can offee him most money, CP3 wont come to a borderline inconsistent team. So when the Jazz strike out in FA, they will end up resigning same ole vets cuz they will probably be best FA available. Polishing brass on the Titanic….
You have a good point Omar. And let’s be realistic WE KNOW that the Jazz get their talent from the draft. 99% of the time, because Utah is simply not a desirable destination for top notch free agents. We may need to trade Al or Sap to someone that needs to shed a contract to stay under the cap i.e. LA, Sac, Boston..and there are also teams that are borderline playoffs that could use the talent. Look at Dallas. Dirk is in his final years and I believe that Cuban will like him to go out winning some and they could really use some of what Utah has. Sap would be a good fit there.
And just to throw it out there I’d love to have Rondo somehow, some way. I don’t see that happening but I’d dig it.
At this point with Mo out, I am okay with trading them as long as we get a solid Point Guard back. I’m talking a big(ger) name like Jose Calderon or perhaps even Eric Maynor. We just need someone a little more consistent than Tinsley and Watson.
My fear is that we will trade our bigs and get bigs in return which will not help our young guys progress. I’d even be okay trading Foye and Millsap for a solid PG so that Burks can step in and fill in Foye’s minutes. And I REALLY like Foye.
I was one of the first around here to say we needed to trade Jefferson, over a year ago. Then shortly after this season started, I said we needed to trade both Jefferson AND Millsap.
But I have since realized there is a much bigger problem with this team. It doesn’t matter which players are here as long as Corbin is calling the shots, because he’s flat out a terrible coach.
But let’s say we do trade both of them. Realistically, we’re not going to be getting all-star caliber players in return. All we’re going to be able to do is exchange two mediocre vets for two different mediocre vets. And Corbin will still give these two new mediocre vets all of the playing time, because he’s too concerned with giving minutes to “experienced” vets than with putting the best players out on the floor and winning.
Good coaches don’t put experience over talent. If that were the case, every college kid would stay in school all four years, because Mike Krzyzewski and John Calipari would only play the seniors.
This is especially true when we’re supposedly attempting to build for the future, and progress beyond the absolute mediocrity “8th seed if we’re lucky” mentality to which we’ve deteriorated.
#FireCorbin
First of all I like them both. But it makes sense to get rid of them for draft picks or a much better PG. Milsap seems laxidasical and Jefferson is 1 dimensional and not a good fit. Honestly the one thing that worries me about draft picks is how Corbin will develop them. Pull the Trigger asap.
@ Kevin I like the idea of picking up Maynor, but trading OKC and sending Sap there I’d hate. The reality is we can’t ONLY have Favs and Kanter as our bigs you always need 3-4 bigs so we’d need 1 or 2 from somewhere so a quality back up would be ideal with an addition of a solid point. Maynor, Darren Collison (which I think is the most realistic) or possibly Calderon. The problem in working with Toronto is that it’s rumored that any deal would have to be packed with Bargnani (sp)? and the last thing we need is another big guy that plays no D and doesn’t rebound. And do we really want to spend 10 million on an older PG that barely plays D either.
I think the answer is D Collison in Dallas. He’s not great but he’s young and really has good potential. And he’s one of the better on ball defensive PG’s in the league, he’s also affordable and I bet Dallas wouldn’t mind Big Al or Sap in a trade. No Collison for Sap or Al isn’t straight up a great bet, but we’re not going to get equal value. Remember that for us there is a lot of value in just getting rid of a big so the others can develop. I think Dallas is about to rebuild, but I hope they want to make one last run while Dirk can still run and if they do WE in Utah have some pieces to help.
We cant just trade for picks – still need to fill out a roster. In the draft, Marcus Smart from Ok State is a baller PG. Do we keep the C4? If not which ones do we keep?
As for trades, lets not mess around:
In:
Greg Monroe (C), Beno Udrih (PG), Jason Thompson (PF), Emeka Okafor (C), Mike Dunleavy (SF)
Out:
Favors, Jefferson, Millsap, Foye, Watson, Bell
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c8ntqo9
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bnf84v7
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d4l2kcr
Are you kidding me! No way I trade Favors for Monroe. Favors ceiling is way higher. Even when a coach is trying to corupt his growth.
Starts with coach, and then getting talent that compliments one another, San Antonio for example, great coach, got lucky in draft but continues to develop and draft complimentary players. Jazz pick up a non pick and roll center to team up with dwill.. Not good
@derek corrupt is the perfect word to use. @chase Dallas are pretty bad so in that scenario we get a lottery pick out of them in the Collison/sap idea.
The problem is twofold, FO with a lack of balls and Corbin with a lack of coaching ability
#firecorbin
First of all Kanter injured Corbin said “We will just have to shorten and tighten our rotations.” So does this mean even more less Burks, Evans?? Even wilth an extension if Jazz do not make the playoffs Corbin is gone.
Second Monson is a jerk. He is a Rockets fan.
Third T think there is a plan (I hope so) Let’s have the patience to get it done right..
@LK – I see no signs of a plan
@LK: Monson wants the Jazz to win and has laid out the very obvious route to take. The route that every analyst in the NBA and every Jazz fan worth their salt knows to be necessary.
Kudos to Monson for having the balls to write this article. Hopefully kevin O Connor choked on his coffee and Greg Miller choked on his apple juice when they read that article.
What Monson said was said by all the other analyst for how many months now?? Could he write an original article?? He does not want the Jazz to win he is a Rockets fan.. Lindsey, KOC, and Miller have been looking at this for months now. All this media stuff is just a game.
Bargs and Calderon have been known to be on the market for how long?? They are still there because it is known that the FO wants them out.
Kings want Cousins dealt but they say he is not on the market and have set their price high. If they get the right offer they will take it. Thats the game.
Jazz FO is the same way. They are not waiving players out there to the media. If the right offer comes they will take it. This is the same FO (with Gregs dad) that selected Stocton and Malone in the teens. Not in the top ten. How did that work out?? Or getting Horny for Jeff Malone. Who got the best of that deal..Why has there been only one small trade since the start of the season. This is why we see no signs of a plan. Kind of like a poker match.. When the dominos start to fall I think we will see an active trade before the deadline.
Before Feb 21st, someone is going to want badly to dump a contract, get rid of a bad attitude, give up a draft pick to make a playoff run or realize they’re out of the playoffs and want to rebuild.
You’ve still got almost 7 weeks. Have patience. Next month it will heat up. Then you’ll have rumors galore to blog about.
Jazzaholic
I would love a trade but we will still have to have a bench and the threat of the Vet.
#fire corbin