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Rookies MPG comparison
Posted by: Simon on March 13th, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.i hope i wont speak only for myself when i say im not happy with the minutes our rookies (+ favors) are getting. so i went to nba.com to do some research and find out how other teams are using their rookies. results didnt really surprised too much, see for yourselves:
Kyrie Irving CLE 31.0 (MPG)
Derrick Williams MIN 20.2
Enes Kanter UTA 13.8
Tristan Thompson CLE 20.0
Jan Vesely WAS 15.4
Bismack Biyombo CHA 18.5
Brandon Knight DET 32.0
Kemba Walker CHA 27.9
Jimmer Fredette SAC 20.0
Klay Thompson GSW 17.2
Alec Burks UTA 12.8
Markieff Morris PHX 19.3
Marcus Morris HOU 4.4
Kawhi Leonard SAS 23.2
Nikola Vucevic PHI 17.7
Iman Shumpert NYK 28.1
Chris Singleton WAS 20.3
Tobias Harris MIL 12.0
…
we can smell chance for playoff spot so vets are preferred on the floor. what do you think would be better for our young guys in terms of development – getting less minutes behind the vets for possible, but not CERTAIN playoff experience or just playing them more during regular season? where do you want to see their minutes per game?
Replies: 20
Views: 423
20 Responses
First of all: Why we select Enes at 3rd damn crap! if we dont use him… till Deron´s trade we need another pg and we get (another) good big man 19 years?
And… Alec situation is a stupid one (Ty still believe in CJ)
One important thing, Jerry has a similar use with rookies even Deron.
OMG
I agree totally with you. I have been frustrated all season when Millsap gets twenty more minutes a game then Favors and Derrick’s averages are not that far off of Paul’s. Plus Millsap conitnues to get worked by the other teams 4 when they are bigger and out muscling him and Favors has shown that he can be a defensive beast. Kanters performance during the international team versus team USA speaks for itslef. I don’t know why Ty hasn’t let himn loose with his midrange jumper when he was known for his outside shooting in high school and college (even though he didn’t play). He just parks him there under the hoop, which he still has done a great job with. I think if you consistantly let those two play thirty minutes a game they would turn into one of the best front courts in the game. I know that they are learning and all but sometimes the best lesson is getting thrown into the fire. As of now the only lesson they are learning is how to be average bench players. If they are going to be the future of this team we need to give them they keys and let them learn to drive.
I think Favors and Kanter WILL get the keys at some point. But is that point this trade deadline? Is it the offseason? Is it next trade deadline, or two years from now when Jefferson and Millsap’s contracts expire?
Let’s not say ‘trade’. Let’s just say we could swap out Millsap’s talent level and production at Power Forward for the same talent level and production at the perimeter. CJ and Howard are coming off the books this year, so that trade gets us a go-to scorer on the wing. Favors gets more time. Kanter gets more time. Evans gets more time. Team production gets more balanced inside-outside. It could work similarly with a Jefferson for a wing swap.
When does this move actually happen? That I don’t know. I wouldn’t be opposed to it happening before Friday, though.
I would like to see all our youngs, getting about 20 minutes a game. Enes is a little raw, but he deserves a MINIMUM of 15 minutes per game.
Burks is already better than Raja Bell and CJ Miles combined.
Here is the distribution of minutes I’d like to see:
(Starters)
Jefferson: 30 minutes
Millsap: 25 minutes
Hayward: 25-30 minutes
Harris: 25 minutes
Howard: 20 minutes
(Bench)
Favors: 25 minutes
Burks: 25 minutes
Kanter: 20 minutes
Watson: 20 minutes
Carrol: 5-10 minutes
Evans: 5-10 minutes
Bell: 5-10 minutes (for defense)
Miles: 0 minutes
All you have to do to make those numbers work is take away minutes from Raja and CJ.
Pretty fair if you ask me.
The Jazz number one priority is making the playoffs. I kind of wish a larger portion of the fanbase could get behind that, and stop dwelling on how much playing time are young guys are getting. Corbin’s job security depends on winning as many games as he can each season. If he feels that the vets are going to give him the best chance to win, then that is what he will do.
As long as the playoffs remain a possibility, barring a trade, the young guys are going to see minimal action (especially Kanter and Burks).
There are only a little over 20 games left in the season. Corbin’s been leaning on the vets all season, so I don’t see him doing anything dramatically different the rest of the way. Not with the playoffs still within reach.
Yeah, let’s gun for the playoffs and be completely slaughtered and humiliated by OKC or San Antonio. Sounds like a great experience for the young guys AND the vets.
I just feel that the time to develop young players is in the summer league…not during a playoff push.
You really think that Coach Corbin can go to guys like Jefferson, Millsap, Harris, Watson, Bell, etc…who bust their backsides to win each night, and say, “I’m going to sit you guys down, so that the young guys can get some experience.” I’m sure that would go over really well.
Still, there’s been plenty of opportunities in blowout losses and blowout wins that he could have put in the young guys, yet he rides the vets til the very end.
Also, Bell and CJ, based on play alone, should be seeing less time while Burks sees more. Burks is better NOW than both those guys, IMO.
I wish Evans could get more time. He gets easy buckets on a team where points just seem like they are hard to get. I wish he could get 5 min a game.
I don’t know what I’d do if I were Corbin in this situation, but what I want, selfishly, as a fan of the team, is for the young guys to get more time. I think that would serve our future better than scraping into the playoffs and facing OKC or Spurs.
I think it comes down to Kevin O’Connor, actually. Ty is doing what he should probably be doing as a coach. Most teams that rebuild and get young draft picks ditch all the old guys and contracts (and with it, the jealousy and hurt pride of players like Raja Bell when their playing time goes to rookies), and roll with the young guys. It makes them suck for a few years, which also coincidentally gives them more lottery draft picks to add. If one or more of those turn out to be superstars, then you’re set (OKC)! If none of them are and your picks suck, then you have to keep slogging through crap (Charlotte). Maybe the Jazz front office is too afraid of sucking for an extended period of time if none of their picks turn out to be superstars.
The Jazz are really the first team to try this ‘win while we develop’ experiment and the jury is still out on what the results will be. But we’ll definitely get to see.
Don’t get me wrong…I love watching our young players on the court.
But, KCJones hit it on the head. The reason the Jazz signed Howard, and Tinsley, and brought back Watson, and didn’t trade Bell, is because they wanted to make the playoffs. You don’t bring in older veterans like that if your in a rebuilding mode, or going with a youth movement. I thought this was all made clear to the fanbase at the beginning of the season when KOC said that we weren’t rebuilding, and our goal was to make the playoffs.
If you look at the list of teams those players play for from Marcus Morris up, with the exception of Derrick Williams at Minnesota all those are poor teams with limited player depth. Just about any player in that part of the draft should have a good chance of playong big minutes at the expense of the their competing compatriot, even if only for the reason that they haven’t developed a losing habit as of yet.
I want to see the Jazz playing their young players too but I don’t buy into the myth that just because they have been drafted high in the lottery that they have got to be better players than the veterans. The simple fact is that with this Jazz team we have no out and out stars. There isn’t that much difference between the starting 5 and the bench. I think Favors is a better defender than Millsap (who is so so) and Jefferson (who is worse than so so) but both are better offensive players. Every player is valuable at the Jazz because we have no star, every player has to man up if are to win and frankly not one player has stood out all season long.
I don’t want this team to be a rebuilding team. Teams can rebuild endlessly and never get to that holy grail or find the messiah. I want this team to play hard and win now. I want our players to show that they have what it takes to produce whatever minutes they get. Bit by bit I want the team to get the necessary pieces together to improve the team. Losing with youngsters is not my idea of fun viewing. Rebuilding year on year is not my idea of fun. I can take losing here and there as long as I see whoever is playing, whatever talent they have – whatever age they are, putting in the effort and making the right decisions to win games.
We have some missing pieces right now but losing with youngsters and getting another draft pick in the lottery is no guarantee of what we need to move on. Coaches and players have to play smart and pick up wins now and whenever they are available. Otherwise they are out of job, or traded away and fans turn off early.
i know that may be a bit out of context considering different teams are in different positions and i apologize for that.
the thing is that their MPG could be higher without threatening our cause to wins as much as possible and get to playoff.
as KCJones mentioned they could get more time in blowout losses and blowout wins. then vets are not doing good on the floor, just throw in rookies.
im much more forgiving for the rookies when they are not doing exactly right things, because its their development phase (lets hope). but at the times when veterans cant win us a game yet they are still on the floor, it is driving me crazy and it serves no good for the franchise.
my point is that there is more room for playing them, it just isnt used and i dont know why.
Giving more time to the rookies during blowout losses will only marginally affect the minutes per game. And really there haven’t been many blowout wins. Most wins have been fought to the death, so there hasn’t been too many minutes to give away on blowout wins.
There have been times when against better quality defenders that Jefferson just flat out disappears as an offensive threat when I have thought that Kanter and Favors could be a better option – the Lakers for instance. There have been times when a team has changed to a zone defense or when the Jazz are just plain struggling to get any basket penetration or free throw attempts when I have been wanting to tap Corbin on the shoulder to say that Burks needs to be inserted into the game. But on the whole as much as I want to see the young players on the floor, not one of them has made a great case to say that they are a better option than what is already there. Millsap struggled for like six weeks to be that offensive threat that we know he can be but Favors didn’t show in the minutes that he was getting during that period that he was going to get any more points, certainly not when playing alongside Jefferson. Its all very well having a great defense but you need points too.
I have all the sympathy for the young players being frustrated that they aren’t getting any more minutes to fulfil the potential they have but I repeat not one of them has stepped up and shown Corbin that they are a better option yet.
You all think the playoffs is good experience why? If they do not get playing time then it does NOTHING! I have said this before these young guys are not going to stay with us when we do not give them minutes. Our future is those 4 players so playing a 6th man power forward ahead of the number 3 pick is ridiculous.
If you have not noticed Favors is averaging as many points as Millsap as of late with about half the minutes. So do not say Millsap is better cause he obviously is not. There are two ends of the floor and Millsap is absent from the defensive end. But by far people that think Millsap busts his butt every night is sorely mistaken. The only reason he played good in Chicago was cause he had a personal vendetta against Boozer and Boozer is horrible at defense.
One question for you all…. Who has the highest amount of points in the Nike Pro Hoop Summit? Oh that is right one Mr. Kanter. Who has played in that game? Dirk, Lebron and so on and so forth. Guess who was guarding him? That would be Jared Sullinger who would have been the top pick last year and is a top 5 pick this year. It pisses me off more then anything when a little bump in the road happens and Kanter and Favors gets yanked out of the game. But yet CJ makes crap plays every game
And he still gets 20 minutes a night. Bell scores 1 point in 25 minutes and still plays. Oh and his great defense allowed Stuckey to score 29 while he was scoring that 1 point
@LK: Did I say take away minutes from Jefferson and Millsap? Yes, but only 10 minutes between the two of them. I said TAKE AWAY MINUTES FROM MILES AND BELL.
Bell’s days are done. He’s a good defender, but has 0 offensive contribution. So unless he completely shuts players down (which he doesn’t) he’s hurting us when he’s on the floor. The last 4-5 games we’ve won, Raja Bell DID NOT PLAY. Coincidence? I think not.
Replace Bell and Mile’s minutes with Burks, Hayward, and Carroll.
My original point remains: if we make the playoffs, we’re going to get swept. So yeah, Raja Bell and Cj Miles and even Earl Watson (also 0 offensive game–no need to bother guarding him) can sit on the sideline for the long term benefit of the team.
@Nick: Why are you yelling at me I haven’y even made a comment on this? But I would agree to let the younguns jave more minutes. Bell played last night after getting out of the doghouse and for what?? Look at his linescore. He may as well stayed in Florida.. Let’s see what Carroll can do. Teams may still be showcasing players as well. After the trade deadline and after it is clear of the non-playoff picture things should change quite a bit.
What you all forget is that Bell is a defensive force and he has frustrated numerous players , we sorely missed his defence in the Chicago game . He may not be putting up points but isnt he like gettin over a sprained calf muscle ? I dont think people just start right where they left off before injuries or illnesses .
Also Favors is not better than Milsap , he hasnt proven he is ready yet . Milsap could try allitle harder in some phases of his defence but he is getting his hands on the ball and gettin some steals and rebounding well , how does that make him a bad player . Favors mins are mostly with bench players so I dont know how you can say his stats are the same as Milsaps .
Also I am still a big Cj fan , I know that he has a ceilin but he plays like a good bench player . I am so tired of you guys sayin he is a selfish player and that you say he is why we lose these games . I see him puttin up points , dribblin in to the paint and either puttin up the shot or passin to a better shot . He may not be the best at defendin but at least he trys .
I dont see Burkes any better than Cj until he can actaully make the the shots he puts up . I do like his energy , but I like that with Cj too .
Anyways I do see the point about playin the youngsters in the games that we clearly are winnin or lossin . And maybe Bell shouldve played less minutes the last game because of his issues . But it is what it is they are tryin to make that play-off push so I geuss we will just have to wait it out for now. That is my 10 cents worth .
Go Jazz !!!!
Upon reading your comments it becomes evident of the difficulty Coach Corbin has in juggling all of these situations. Yes, his job is to win and get to the playoffs, on the other hand, as a fan, I see our future is getting two more draft picks and developing our youth. This is probably why I am not the coach and why they don’t pay for my opinion.
Some of our younger guys have earned more minutes, some are still in the process of earning them. In some games we should have seen our youngsters out on the floor, especially this year while vets could be sitting and resting up for the next games. Another scenerio, is when Miles is having one of his toss it to the moon games, they should get out there fast.
When comparing all rookies and their minutes, its best to consider that many of the ones you posted are actually the best players on their team hands down.. Look at the teams most of them come from, Cleveland, Charlotte, Detroit, Well that says it all. If Kanter was on most of those teams, he would have been a starter too. Burks too probably.
@steve Im glad someone else is commenting on kanters outside range not being implemented. He can shoot! why are we not running pick and fades for him and millsap? i dont get it. that alone would spread the defense and open up the inside game.
I can understand playing the vets, but not when they are playing like CJ and Raja have played all season … free Alec Burks!
Jefferson and Millsap’s time on the floor is hard-earned, and converted into efficient production more often than not. I would love to see Favors start and Kanter playing 20-30 minutes off the bench. So … we have one too many to realistically do that.
I am impressed with all four Jazz big men, but one has to go… and we really could use a true point guard, I would like Devin so much more if he played the sixth man scoring combo guard role.