Meet
3 experiments
Posted by: Jazzed uponit on November 21st, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.Were a .500 team. It seems that there shouldnt be much to complain about this early in the season and theres not. Not if we are aiming to become the most historical average team in the NBA. The jazz are “good”. In the last decade we have been good at being consistently average. Everyone keeps their jobs. No feelings hurt and we have a pretty good idea who the next years starting lineup is going to be sometime in April the previous year. We are a small market franchise and I get it. I get that taking a more conservative route ensures business success. Its more secure, etc. But for the love, can we please at least act like we would someday want to compete for a championship and not a bottom seed entry in the playoffs?
We are a team with no superstar. We have a slightly above average roster at every spot , but nothing that stands out except Favors defense and Mo williams when hes hot. So what do you do?? …experiment.
Experiment #1 The big 3 lineup. This is basically a fluke that corbin had to put in when there were alot of injuries on the roster late last year, or he was just saving the idea all year. It works because Favors is a mobile defender at all 3 positions and it clogs lanes and defends the paint well. It worked better last year. Millsap was a step quicker last year for whatever reason to keep this brief, he is slower now. This year so far its a fail. The opponent has built significant leads every game we have started with it.
Experiment #2 Friendship motivation. Or adding players in the offseason that know each other well and might in turn play well together. Mo, Foye, Marvin and Al all know each other since childhood. We hoped that maybe that bond would transform into a strong veteran chemical force that would uplift our youth and have the experience to win big games. We now have bad chemistry. We depend on the bench vets and low paid huslters to win games, so Fail.
Experiment #3 Develope our youth in a winning environment. Making the playoffs last year was neutral if not negative. The only young talent to get solid playoff minutes was Favors. Only because Corbin was forced to play him. So far this year Favors is the only one getting enough minutes for the development needed for high calibur players. Lottery picks are projected to be high calibur rotation players if not super stars, allstars, or at least starters. We have 4 of them. 2 number 3 lottery picks and now only 1 of them starts. Are we winning? not really. .500 isnt a big motivating environment. It is average. And the players that were supposed to get experience are not even playing. FAIL.
What the hell are we doing anymore? whats the philosophy. For 2 years we havent known who the jazz are. We have young players , but the majority of the team is vets in their prime. Doesnt the player project the philosophy of the coach on the court? Wouldnt that happen sometime within 2 years? Otherwise why even practice if players are supposed to teach themselves how to lead. How to reach their potential and use their talent and then translate that to the court. Just let them do shootarounds and show up for games.
So the expirements have failed. We have expiring contracts of players that should have been traded last year if they are going to be traded at all. Our roster linups are a disaster. There is no room to give minutes to the up coming talent that we want on the roster. And we only have 5 players on the books for next year. So whats the plan now?
Replies: 20
Views: 1020
20 Responses
Way too early to call a pass or fail.
We have two number 3 picks. They have an 85% chance to be stars which is the highest of any pick and they get a combined 37 minutes.. That is not acceptable that is why I think we have failed.
Also I am not seeing people “earn” their time. Has any player earned their time on this team???
I dont know LK, I mean I hope its too early. But at what point do we lose our value in Millsap and Al. if we assume they dont sign then trade maybe should have happened last year. Millsap already turned down an offer this year so…
Yeah Dallan, so far earning time is just lip service.
Agreed Jazz uponit! I say fail cuz Im including last year as part of this moment. Last year, CJ averaged 23 minutes (now plays with Cavs), Howard averaged 24 minutes (Twolves), Bell averaged 24 minutes (not playing)?! So tell me, why we didnt develop Burks, Evans, (and Kanter/Favors cuz of Al)….so that we can develop CJ, Howard, and Bell—all vets w ZERO upside. Come on now.
This year there is a HUGE chance for this attitude philosophy to blow up in our face. Millsap and Al will not be with the Jazz unless Jazz pay Millsap 9-10M and Al at least 11M, and over the next 3 years give them bout 60 (of 96 front court minutes) and we would still have Favors and Kanter splitting up 36 minutes. So if we want Favors to get 30+, then Kanter will get DNPs, and that is not development.
Tinsley is averaging close to 20 minutes (?!) Foye is averaging 25 minutes per and Burks is gettin DNPs. Unless you think Tinsley is resigning AND is going to contribute in the playoffs, why is he even playing?! Foye is a specialist, thats it. He has little to no upside, so unless you are going resign him (which would be good ONLY as a rotation player) and you think in the playoffs he will contribute more than 3s (like playing great D on Kobe, Green, Sefalosha, Iggy, Crawford) then his minutes should be cut by about 8-10 minutes imo.
Best case scenario Jazz resign Al, Millsap, Mo, Foye, Tinsley, (Watson), our young players do not develop and we retain a mediocre roster over the next 3-5 years while other teams get better FA and develop their young talent …..and we expect to win a championship?! Your blind or a fool.
Worst case scenario, all the FAs leave and take the about 200 minutes of playing time per game that Corbin gave them, trade away our young talent (BURKS!), not develop our youth Kanter, Favors to a lesser degree, Evans, Murphy, and a ton of roster spots which KOC will fill with mediocre overrated over paid vets (josh howard types) NO PG, and expected to win a championship, AND the whole process starts again where our GSW pick and others will be bench behind the likes of Tony Douglas, Steve Blake, etc….
So ya a fail for last year and a fail in process for the next 2 years at least, and longer depending on the new contacts give Al and company.
The main problem is Coach Corbin. He has all of Sloan’s rigidity, but none of his success. He is at least trying a few new things, but honestly doesn’t seem to know what to do. The one thing that he is hell bent on not doing is playing our young players and letting them show us how good they are now and get a glimpse at how good they can be.
I’m not too excited about Corbin’s coaching philosophy either, but I also think it’s too early to tell. Burks does need to play more, Kanter too … I have always been in favor of trading Al, and I still think that will happen. I disagree that Al and Millsap have passed their max trade potential. IMO, they will both be most valuable at the trade deadline, Al’s $15M expiring contract will be huge for some team … If they aren’t traded or resigned by then, there can always be a sign and trade – which is not ideal, imo.
One thing to consider is that the Jazz FO is aligning it’s assets to take advantage of the offseason when the new CBA penalties will drive down the price of free agents. Players will be available to teams with cap space, and huge contracts like Al’s will be alot harder to come by … a traded player exeption and cap space could be solid gold … more valuable than a player we may get back for Al.
To me, it is really two separate issues, Corbin’s flawed player development, and the front office taking it’s time to deal Al, Paul, or both … I wonder how much Corbin is involved with the front office in making player decisions … for sure some head coaches are almost GMs…
Favours needs to show that he can score decent numbers every night before Al or Millsap or traded. Al may get too much of the ball but he can score every night (apart from a few bad nights) Millsap can be hit and miss but he can put on big numbers. Favours has better potential than Jefferson/Millsap but overall he is not as good.
Same reason why Foye should not start if he is cold he offers very little to the team, Carrol & Hayward offer good D every night, plus Hayward on a bad night will at least get free throws, shooting 3 usually get 0.
Jazzed uponit hit this on the mthafkkn head. People who are not seeing all those points as a fail must be blind as hell. News flash the jazz arent winning anything this year. If its not for strong home showings this team would be !@#$% because we still cant win on the road. Point blank period the keys need to be handed over to a different driver. Other than the pistons who won a championship with second and third options on their roster, no one else has ( this jazz team isnt that).
Hayward and favors are in their third year. by this time you usually know what you are getting and are doing as much to make them corner pieces. Every other team with lottery picks atleast try to give them an opportunity( Kanter and burks)
how is favors gonna score when not a single play gets ran through him. imagine that he’s scoring ok now without any plays being called for him, imagine when they are calling and his confidence is blooming. the same goes for hayward and others.
@Dean He averaged 16 PPG last year when he played over 30 minutes. With 57% shooting and that was with no plays ran for him. We run no P&R with him which is what he does best. We do not have him cut which he does 2nd best. We do not put him in a position to succeed. Do not tell me Favors could not score if given the ball and oppurtunity
Also Al has been horrible this year. It is not just a few games. He is shooting 44% and taking the most shots on the team! This is not good. His 50% shooting last year was average and now he is getting worse
I understand that we are not the team that we were in the Stockton/Malone days but would all the real fans please stand up and say something positive because I am tired of all you butt pirates thinking that you know everything about the FO and coaching staff. You don’t know what’s going to happen in the future and as the great Herm Edwards would say “you play to win the game”. So according to certain people on this site we should just forfeit every game before we even play it because we definitely have no chance of winning, you should all be ashamed of yourselves and you should all go be Knicks or Lakers fans.
Nathan watch more than one game this season and take a look our player contracts once in awhile. I guess settling for mediocrity doesnt bug you. But I love this team. I love our fans, and jazz fans deserve to get the best. They deserve to get a championship. Thats what its all about. Not a few wins over weak teams and scraping into playoffs. Do whats necessary now to be a contender tomorrow. We are not title contenders this year. We have players on this team that are young and could be title contenders in their careers. Play them.
@Jazzed clap clap clap clap clap well said
Perfectly said Jazz!
Lakers are nothing like Jazz fans—a lot if those aholes just go to the game cuz its “cool” or so they can go to the club fashionably late….have you notice all the brand new Clips fans lately, from the same city. They dont care. Jazz fans care too much! And thats whats so awesome, we care about every season, every game, every minute, every play. Thats why Al has a lazy play we all jump on him, and when he does it a ton over a year we get super upset. And we you care so much for so long, its frustrating when the coach and FO are comfortable being mmmm just okay.
Hey, you know what you should do? Keep b****in! Because if you keep complaining about the same things over and over, then the Jazz will win a championship faster. Because after all even when the Jazz win, they really need you guys to tell them how horrible their stats were. Hey have you ever noticed how their used to be a lot of people commenting on these boards and now there is like 3 people that comment anymore….hmmmm…….????
Ya okay and you should keep “b****in” about our “b****in” HAHAHA!!! The circle of life……hahaha.
I understand what the Jazz are trying to do, its frustrating sometimes, but i understand. Carroll has figured it out too. The Jazz don’t want these young guys to feel entitled. They want them to not only earn minutes but TAKE minutes from these veterans. Carroll has not only earned minutes, but has TAKEN minutes from others. Him and burks were given equal opportunities, carroll just outproduced him. Favors is starting to figure it out too. He’s now been put in the starting 5, because he has TAKEN that spot.
A title is not going to be given to us. We aren’t the most popular, we won’t be voted a title. You have to TAKE it. You are fighting other teams with greater talents. You take it. As ridiculous as it is at times, i understand the Jazz trying to instill that TAKE it mentallity.
ATLEAST THATS WHAT I HOPE IS THE CASE…
bitch, not bitch, young, old, doesnt matter. We are not built for a title run. Not close. That is my entire point. The new additions in the off season were good talent and we are prime with flexibilty to do something with the roster now. Its not working together as well as it could have. The best players on our team are not getting enough minutes. It doesnt take a hall of fame coach to notice our chemistry isnt working. There are too many good players getting DNP’s. This is a business. Talent is bought and traded. It is very tangeable to get different and better talent that fits. Yeah i know . Too early . The Suns, Raptors, Rockets, and Kings were completely over powered by us. Nathan go back and look through more blogs. theres alot of people on 360 including more and more new jazz fans. Reality shouldnt be this hard for you to talk about, but whatever.
@Steve I agree with that philosophy, but Corbin is not holding Al and a few others accountable when they are not using that Take philosophy during a game. Al has been completely disengaged on defense and not shooting well at the same time during different games this year and not been pulled out for his lack of effort and lack of desire to compete.