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C4 are not better than our starters.
Posted by: Jazzed uponit on December 29th, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.Earl Watson, Alec Burks, Gordon Hayward, Derrick Favors and Enes Kanter (34 minutes 107.3 Off Rating 86.3 Defensive Rating)
DEEPER DIG – This bench crew has played 34 minutes all in the month of December. They are not shooting well, just 41% though they have hit 43% of their three’s. It has only been used in 3 games all year. It has an unsustainable 41% offensive rebounding rate which is covering up their shooting problems. Opponents are shooting just 40% against this lineup.
Best Offensive 5 man Line-ups (min 15 minutes together)
1. Mo Williams, Gordon Hayward, Paul Millsap, Derrick Favors and Al Jefferson (17 minutes 152 offensive rating and 125.2 defensive rating)
2. Jamaal Tinsley, Gordon Hayward, Marvin Williams, Derrick Favors and Al Jefferson(20 minutes 138.7 offensive rating 92.8 defensive rating)
Best Defensive 5 man Line-ups (min 15 mintues together)
1. Jamaal Tinsley. Gordon Hayward, Marvin Williams, Paul Millsap and Al Jefferson (41 minutes defensive rating of 85.6 and offensive rating of 114.0)
2. Earl Watson, Alec Burks, Gordon Hayward, Derrick Favors and Enes Kanter (34 minutes defensive rating of 86.3 offensive rating of 107.3)
I guess I was a bit surprised to see Lock still defend Ty after last night, losing a 19 pt lead to the clippers but the dude is loyal. I will give him that.
Replies: 10
Views: 418
10 Responses
Too many of you look to Locke for answers. He just has a opinion just like everybody else.
Put Evans in instead of Watson, leave them for a month then look again at the stats..
I would like to see a line up of
Watson
Foye
Marvin
Sap
Al
And see how bad their offensive rating is. C4 with a PG that wouldnt start on most China league teams has a 107 O rating?! Thats pretty damn good!!! Im gonna say want I said early when Watson returned, and got a lot of stuff for it: offensively, Jazz are playing 4 on 5 when Watson is on the court. The C4, and the C4 alone have a 107 O rating; whereas the best rated O has 5 players contributing to its total.
As far the best D rating, against which team did those minutes come against??? What I saw last two games was the a top 5 team in the West, and the top team in the league (and the best bench in the league) outplay Jazz starters for the most part (Foye had one game), and yet the C4 with a 4th or worse PG with NO offensive game dominate.
So I appreciate his loyalty, but here is the real catch: Kanter and Burks have barely played 82 games, and Favors has not been given proper minutes, yet there is enouch evidence to compare them to vets that have played close to or over 10 years!!! That should say something about a 15M player that needs to be justified as quality. That fact that its debatble whether a player that has played 82 games in 2 1/2 years is close to (I say already better) a 9 year 15M dollar should tell you has a brighter future.
I don’t understand the ratings cause i’m too lazy to look them up and mostly i just don’t put a lot into them.
The starters are always going to get a bad rep. Most nights we are outmatched against the opposing starting 5. And our bench will outmatch opposing benches. We are a team of 10 B to C+ players. Where as most teams have 1 or 2 A players in the starting 5, but their bench players are graded a little lower.
I wrote about this early in the season, but plain and simple… The bench will be the reason we win games. The starters are either on par or outmatched most nights. So as long as the starting 5 can stay close, the bench will outplay most other teams benches and build us a lead. Its up to Coach Corbin to understand that and preserve the lead.
They played against the starters for most of the time they were on the floor last night. We put a huge lead together when the starters were on the floor for more then half of the 2nd quarter with our bench guys in.
As Omar said if we had any kind of PG with those guys we would be SOO much better! In the Nets game Favors got his best looks he has got all season with Mo on the floor.
I have been saying the PG situation was crap before the season started and needed to be changed and now we are up the river without a paddle..
Who started that game we scored 130+ points? I forget, remind me.
The difference in blatent opinion is Lock is paid by the jazz. He does have an advantage on the rest of the fans. He actually talks to members inside the organization. Lock is way off on this one. C4 will get better and better the more time they get on the floor, there might be a few bad nights but nothing worse than our current veterans. As for our starters potential… Millsap tapped. Al tapped. Foye/Marvin/Tinsley are veteran bench rotation status tapped.
My note to Greg Miller: at this point , you cant polish a turd. lets just make some trades and find the right coach.
@Jazzed Uponit: You just posted a blog and said that our starters are better than our bench. Your last two comments you have said the exact opposite.
Confused much?
Bottom line is is that Locke’s statistics don’t pass the eyeball test. Just look at his Locked Offensive ratings. He has bench players over guys like Durrant and and Lebron.
Statistics are inherently flawed.
There simply isn’t enough data about our bench to truly gauge their effectiveness because they asre so criminally under utilized.
What anyone with eyes and a brain can plainly see is that we are a better team with Favors, Kanter, Hayward, and Burks on the floor.
While it’s true that in the significant amount of time the Jazz starters have played together, their numbers AVERAGE out to be SLIGHTLY above our bench, it doesn’t take into account Win Loss Percentage.Every player on our bench has a higher W/L % than our starters (with maybe one or two exceptions).
Another thing is that Burks, Kanter and Favors are essentially still rookies in terms of actual playing time. Of course they’re going to struggle a bit.
But if our bench was on the floor for the 1000+ minutes that our starters were, I’d bet my bottom dollar that they would be statistically superior to our starters in almost every category.
And ultimately, when this team plays best RIGHT NOW, it’s because at least 1 (usually 2 or 3) of our bench players on the court.
(Coincidentally, this inflates the statistics of our starting lineup.)
@Nick No, im with the rest of the world on this subject. i just felt like this is one David Locke posting that should be open for debate. I chose the title to feed the article. theres absolutely no doubt that its time to play the future C4 and make some franchise moves after the last game. And Corbin might want to try some change in lineups soon
So i was just reading through some stuff on SLC dunk and a fan said Lockes post game pod cast was good, he finally called it as it is. I watched it and he was right Lock called the game as it was. A possible turning point for the organization. Whats the next step? C4 can clearly handle themselves. Lets get some pieces