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Ambition?
Posted by: disco on January 11th, 2013
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.What do Portland, Denver, Golden State and Houston have in common? The answer is ambition. All 4 teams have recently blown up their teams through trading away their franchise player (Denver, Golden State) and to a lesser extent Portland with Wallace, while Houston literally traded everyone for draft picks before the draft. Denver surprised everyone last season with their play after trading Carmelo and therefore haven’t really surprised anyone with their success this season, the other three teams were expected to be in the lottery again next draft.
If we look at the standings tonight, al three teams are in playoff positions, despite everyones opinions at the start of the season. The reason for this is that all these teams have ambition. They realised they couldn’t build Clippers style by attracting big names in trades and keeping them in FA, so they took a punt, a calculated risk, that has paid off for all four teams.
What does this have to do with the Jazz you might ask. The Jazz missed a great chance to show their ambition in the last off-season, missing out on Harden or acquiring some draft picks, instead rebuilding through signing veterans and extending the contract of a coach who had shown very little skill or development since taking over.Now the Jazz have one last chance to show ambition, with the trade deadline fast approaching, will the FO show some ambition to succeed or will they be happy playing for 8th spot and remain mediocre for years to come
Thoughts?
Replies: 39
Views: 721
39 Responses
I don’t think Jazz will make a move before trade deadline. I think their moves will all be in summertime.
Jazz wont make a move before the deadline. They’re happy with the 8th seed.
I agree with what you’re saying. Daryl Morrey (Rockets brand new GM) is a genius. He took a perpetual 9th seed team (one nonetheless loaded with talent) and complet5ely blew it up. They are still competeticve in the loaded western conference and they will be competetive for at least 4 more years with James Harden and Jeremy Lin, not to mention their talented draft picks.
Meanwhile, the players they traded are struggling(Dragic, Lowry, Scola) on their new teams.I think the Jazz are going to go after a mid-level big name free agent (an oj mayo/rudy gay type player)and then probably a draft pick. Then they’ll resign either Millsap or Jefferson (most likely Jefferson).
And then next year we’ll compete for the 8th seed again.
Also they will resign either Tinsley or Watson.
I think, hopefully, that they will get rid of Al and Paul via expiring contracts and rely on the draft. Maybe a trade, but NO big contract player.
Nick can’t you bring anything else to the table than ‘we’re happy with an 8th seed’, go on make a trade bud, as it if it were that easy, we can make 4 trades tomorrow and get peanuts. Not so easy pal.
I do agree in trading either Al or Millsap, but we do need to get the most as possible out of it. Preferably get a draft pick back and a player that fills up the deal.
We’re not in a position to ‘blow out’ the team right now, but make the very precise moves that help further development of our young core.
You realize the Jazz “blew up” their team the same way these other teams did. Paul Millsap is the only player on today’s roster that was on the team 3 years ago. The grass is always greener…
By the way, you didn’t mention other teams who retooled this offseason; Phoenix, Dallas, Orlando, Philly, and Milwaukee last year. Those are all shining examples on why we should do something drastic right?
He got that ambition baby look in his eyes
This week he mopping floors next week it’s the fries
So, stick by his side
I know his dude’s balling but yeah that’s nice
And they gone keep calling and trying
But you stay right girl.
That was my first thought when I read about “Ambition”. Golddigger by Kanye West.
For every ‘drastic’ move that turned out well, there are probably 5 examples of a drastic move that ended up horribly….just ask the Lakers.
Jazz front office has new blood. Its no coincidence they brought in Lindsey the same year that they have 8 expiring contracts on the roster. I have total confidence Lindsey and KOC are setting a good long-term strategy.
I think you guys are missing the point:
Jazz are would NOT be blowing up the team to start from stratch…..we already have young talented potential high ceiling players!!!!! Al and Millsap are expendable, thats the whole point!! When you sell your ild car when you have a brand new car of the year, that aint a risk thats common sense….which Im sad to say Jazz FO kinda lacks.
Lakers are doing exactly what Jazz are doing! Signing old players past their prime, players with history of injuries, not trading away players that havr value (Kobe cant be trade, but Al can, filling the roster with scrub vets. How is thay turning out for Lakers?! Kobe said they are old and slow: do I even have mention who on Jazz roster? Lakers havr no youth, Jazz have great youths, so whats Jazz excuse, other than they have the resources but have no clue?! Jazz cant even get rid of Raja, lol!
Lakerland is where we are heading when we resign and over pay vets, miss out on FA, and lose our youth to FAncy. Take away C4 from Jazz and we would be worse off than Lakers: Al, Millsap, Foye, Mo hurt, Watson, Tinsley would be dominating minutes. This Laker team is our future, when C4 get legit PT and desire from top tier teams.
*resign and over pay mediocre vets, that is.
I’ll be on board with you Omar if they resign all the vets. But for now, you can’t say they don’t have a plan. The Jazz are possibly the most tight-lipped organization in the league. I think patience is what I’m trying to convey. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Andy, I guess thats my problem, the longer the Jazz hold on to them the more likely I see them keeping one if not both. Millsap wants 9M at the least (imo, thats over paying), Al’s contact is hard to move now, just wait til it has multiple years. So I guess the way I see it, Jazz are either going to trade Millsap or overpay (so I said Jazz should have traded already to find time for Kanter Favors); Al still leads team in minutes and FG attempts, so if Jazz have an intension on trading Al, they should at least take 5-10 minutes away from him and not feature him so much (which is probably Corbins problem and thats why we get on him).
Basically its seems like Jazz are waiting for a miracle trade offer where we take no bad contacts bad, or get talent to equal Al’s overrated status KOC sees. Meanwhile, K and F are not getting time to develop. Plus, Jazz resign Evans at 3.7M to get DNPs?! And play behind Millsap AND Favors (who doesn’t even get quality minute he deserves)?! Thats why its hard to see KOC with a plan other than the usual FA mediocre vet signing and Corbins determination to play them over young players. Its a bad cycle a mediocre cylce. By Feb 21 Jazz FO better justify retarding the growth of C4 and not trading away Al Millsap, 2013 pick, and GSW pick to somehow get Lillard. So they have a lot to make up for.
@ Kevin the fact your first thought when reading the term ambition was Kanye West is disturbing
@ Andy teams like Phoenix, Dallas and orlando had no choice in blowing up their team, their stars wanted to leave so it wasn’t their choice. As far as Milwaukee goes, have a look at the Eastern conference standings. The difference between the Jazz and Denver is that Denver used what they got from New York while the Jazz have Favors and Kanter off the bench. As far as FA goes, who exactly is out there that you’d like?
@disco
Well it certainly wouldn’t have been Corbin or the direction he’s taking us!
Also @Andy, Rome wasn’t built in a day, but i’m pretty sure progress was seen and there was some positive movement. No one was knocking bricks down intentionally just because it was a new brick and wasn’t “seasoned”. Right now Corbin is using this roster as if he thinks seasoned is ALWAYS best. Sometimes it is, but in this situation it simply isn’t. Patience is good, but it’s also okay to expect better than mediocrity.
Has anybody seen any trades happen in the last 60 days? I think there was a small one about a month ago, but that’s it. Anybody in business and negotiations knows most deals go down closer to a deadline. We all freak out that it’s Jan 11th and a trade hasn’t been done.
And what if one doesn’t happen by the deadline? It means a good offer wasn’t there. Jazz FO will figure it out. People talk about Al and Paul being washed up old men…..they are 28 and 27. I can see one of them being traded or not re-signed, but I think one of them will be back with the Jazz for the 2013-2014 season.
What Shane says, this ain’t NBA 2k guys, where amazing trades happen, it’s just not that easy as some might think. Im interested in seeing what Dennis’ first moves are. Might give us a hint on what to expect in the future and the direction the Jazz will be heading.
The jazz FO has always done a pretty good job. I think they know hell of a lot more than anyone posting on this site. Many people on here think they know everything going on the jazz FO but like Andy said, the jazz are one of the most tight lipped organizations in the NBA. Did anyone expect the deron trade or even hear anything about it?? The jazz have made the playoffs much more often than they missed and they expect nothing less than making the playoffs, so if the jazz dont trade al or paul, or if they resign one or both in the offseason(which most likely will not happen) I think the jazz will find success fairly soon
I’m with you guys @ Shane , John , Andy and , Jamezz . I dont know why we are freaking out when the deadline hasnt come and gone yet . I dont think that both al and paul will still be here next year , just maybe one or the other .
Also Rome wasnt built in one the same as all good things it takes time and patience to build . KOC and FO has done well getting good players , so I am goin to stick with them .
Go Jazz I beleive !!!!!!
John is right everyone. The Jazz FO knows more so we shouldn’t ever discuss fun topics or share opinions. I’m ashamed of all of you.
Also, trades are hard so we shouldn’t try to improve. Thanks for the dose of reality peeps.
I agree ^
John, we’re going to have to ask you to disable your account on this site because Dennis Lindsey has a job with the Jazz and you don’t.
and im pretty sure no one said trades shouldnt be made. their just not made as easy or quickly as you think them to be
Man with so many experts I am surprised one of the MANY Nba teams has not snatched up a bunch of new FO managers.
lol! Okay, lets just simplify things:
with Al averaging 34 minutes per game over an 82 game season (2011-12), and Millsap averaging 32 minutes per game over the same 82 games…..Jazz finished as an 8th seed. Okay so far…..
with Al averaging 33 minutes per game over 38 game season so far and Millsap averaging 31 minutes per game over same 38 games…..Jazz are a 9th seed.
Okay, so how is resigning Al and Millsap for next year going to improve the Jazz?? AND DO NOT SAY, “cuz Favors and Kanter will be better,” cuz even if they are, even if Corbin becomes Pop and plays them 35 minutes each…..all that means is that our back up Center and back up PF are getting paid a combined 25M (at least) to be bench players??? You all do realize there are only 48 minutes per position in NBA regulated game, right?! So either the youth doesn’t get develop, or our back up front court will be severely over paid.
And of course blockbuster trades are rare–thats our point! Trade Al for anything! His 33 minutes are worth more than what we will get in an Al trade. In terms of big picture. Trading Al for a bag of chips would get Kanter and Favors at 30 minutes, so if we can get anything for Al basketball wise thats a win right there. You don’t need to wait til deadline to do that already more than half the season done and those minutes wasted on Al.
*lock out 66
I dont think they would be better if the Jazz brought back Al and Millsap, and I do not expect them to. But if they did it would be because they saw something that we dont or cant see, and so I would be confident that they would successful just as they always have.
@John, well then we are arguing terms:
I define “success” as winning an NBA championship. Being a borderline playoff team does not cut it, especially when the Jazz have 4 lottery picks on on the roster (two #3 picks).
You need Allstar to superstar status players to win championship: Al and Millsap have hit there ceilings, thats why we need to see what the C4 have and determine if they are it or not. Al and Millsap are not it, period.
The Jazz’ ambition is nothing more or less than mediocrity.
They want to be just competitive enough and have enough excitement about the team to get fans out to the games and take our money by overcharging on everything from tickets to waters because, “were good enough to win on any given night.”
They also want to be relatively cheap, by not forking out the money to put a really competitive team on the floor. They want to build a team through the draft and have the label of “potential” up & down the roster, to keep excitement buzzing around the team, but refuse to give the young guys minutes in order to kill their development. Thus when the time comes to renew a contract, we aren’t held hostage to fork out big money. So, when the player does sign a big time offer else where, the FO can say, “well, he definitely went after the money, nothing we can do about it, we feel they overpaid him big time.”
THIS is the Jazz ambition.
Wow, well said Steve. I can’t even think of an argument against that, not that I’d have the desire to argue against something so spot on.
Thanks Taco… I’ve been stewing about that for a while. I don’t think we’re the only fans that feel like that.
Best case scenario: first round exit
Well, maybe 2013-14 will be better……nevermind it probably will not be, Im fixing to give up pretty soon.
The Jazz FO is one of the best in the league.
2 other teams may need a facilitator and the Jazz and HOU are perfect teams for that. So, we may not see any trade or no big trades, but a 3rd party trade. There may be nothing until the draft.
Tonight Ty just couldn’t control himself and let the co-guard go, he had to leave Earl out there and blow a 17 point lead.
Jazzaholic
@Steve that’s what I’m afraid of. @ Jazzaholic – Earl probably had a cry after the last 2 games
@ Andy and Jamezz It actually IS that simple. We can overhaul the roster. We can do exactly what Houston did. And we can do it keeping the C4 who have better potential than what Houston kept. And it actually is necessary. If we lose value in the pieces that we paid to build the team in earlier years like Millsap and Al’s contracts. Then we are going backwards. Jazz do not succeed in the FA markets. We may be able to offer large money when with 30 mil off the books. But big FA talent wont look at this team as going anywhere soon.
Houston didnt go through the offseason without mistakes and setbacks and bad deals. They just kept trying and risking and making the next smart move. They got lucky with Hardin. But they did some damn good scouting and took the risk to get those draft picks to get Hardin. Asik was up and coming talent not getting used. Lin had potential. They probably worked the phones harder than any other team in the league.
Draft picks are the commodity and leverage in the new CBA restricted league. If you can get 4 draft picks in the top 20 of the draft, you have triple the chance to gain prime talent. Teams usually give up #15-#25 picks for proven talent. Which is what Houston went after. Dropping Lowry for Toronto picks AND dropping Drago looked sketch at the time. But what they got was:
1. the opportunity to package picks to trade for a higher pick and talent
2. when Houston dumped talent for picks they freed cap space to take on heavy contracts. If you have a franchise running right. It should have a year like the thunder had. 4 guys talented enough for max salary. You get to chose who to keep and gain picks for talent and keep the budget in check. Rockets had the best offer for hardin because they took the risk to gain assets.
3. If no one trades to move higher in the draft, Houston still has 4 picks to take a shot at an allstar sleeper that dropped from the lottery.
The jazz are in even better position than Houston last year. We have great scouting. We should be even better at scouting this year which is why we picked up Linsey. To help with the FO load and enable more time on scouting. We have high talent to trade. We have cap space.
No excuse not to make a quick strong rebuild. We just need the FO to grow some balls before Sap and Al walk without getting draft picks for them.
At one point during last summer before the draft Houston had a crazy looking roster. They dumped good talent: Lowery, Scola, Dragic to get salary space and draft picks. Jazz dont even have to dump much. our roster is cleared this summer. If we can just acquire some picks for our valued players leaving, we have a better shot at landing a star. i.e. if boston wanted to reload for a contending team using the FA this summer, we could essentially trade them draft picks and maybe one of the C4 like Burks for a max salary like Rondo. Celtics would get the space to acquire CP3 or Dwill AND have picks for more future talent. Even if we didnt want to keep Rondo, he would be a huge bargaining piece to pick up maybe 2 quality players (i.e. Brandon Knight and Stucky) and draft picks like we did with Dwill. Bottom line is FO is crazy to not get aggressive for the rebuild this year.
Well said Steve.
Fortunately for the Jazz FO there are no other alternatives at the moment, so people will always pay to go see a mediocre Jazz team with “potential”.
But the Jazz “thought the game was over” LMAO
good job coach.
I just hope C4 end up on the same team when they leave Utah, so KOC can see just how sorry his plan turned out when Jazz resign Al and Millsap and Foye and Mo and Tinsley and Watson. Plus I want to see them play together and succeed.
I just don’t see the point of happily accepting mediocrity like a mindless herd of sheep. I understand patience and team spirit/support, but there comes a point where intelligent and passionate fans demand better.
And to say trades are too hard to try is absurd.