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Jazz shopping ? Guess who …
Posted by: Henri on January 20th, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.According to espn and yahoo sports, Jazz may be trying to trade Harris for real …
We have discussed on this site why he doesn’t seem to fit in the jazz system. Now if the rumor comes true, it will be for an upgraded player. So, let’s make it a poll question. Who do you want from the following list:
A) José Calderon
B) Rajon Rondo
C) Raymond Felton
D) DJ Augustin
E) Steve Nash
F) Andre Miller
Replies: 62
Views: 935
* * * * * 2 Votes
62 Responses
Interesting. Interesting indeed. There are several people to blame for the offense going stale last night, not just Devin.(That stretch of about 7 minutes when shot selection went south, they abandoned inside out play, and ball movement was non existent.)
Although, I would support a trade at that position. I think that Calderon, Rondo or Augustin would be interesting.
Watching Jason Kidd last night reminded me how deficient we are at the 1.
I would want Augestin first, and then I’d pick Calderon. Whichever of those two would make me very happy.
rajon rondo. we are one point guard away from being elite
OK so let’s do the following:
Rank the top three PG you want from the list. I’ll give 3 4 point to the n°1, 2 points for the n°2, 1point for the number 3.
My take :
B) Rondo
A) Calderon
C) Felton
A)Nash
B)Rondo
C)Calderon
D)Augustin
B)Rondo
D)Augustin
A or E)Nash or Miller, if we can some how get a young gun for either of them to mentor. Otherwise, Calderon.
Obviously, the no brainer is Rondo. Seeing as that could be tough to get, I would be extremely happy with Augustin.
I’d like to see the Jazz draft Kendall Marshall. I’m predicting the Warriors finish out of the bottom seven teams, and the Jazz get that pick. That selection would probably be somewhere in the 8-14 range of the draft. That’s about the area of the draft that most experts have Marshall going. Like Watson, he’s a pass first point guard.
Calderon would fit the Jazz system the best, he is the best passer on the list. Every year he averages 9-11 APG, and that can’t be easy when he is passing to the raptors. He can hit the three pretty well also.
I feel like Augustin and Felton are scoring guards, like Harris, and Nash and Miller would be great, but only for a year or maybe two. Rondo is amazing, but I wonder if he would melt down after being traded to Utah …I hear he has a big head.
A. Rondo
B. Nash
C. Calderon
I think the Celtics and Suns would want to much in return for their guys. So, that would move Calderon to the top of my list.
A) Rondo
B) Jrue Holiday
C) Time Machine to 1984, draft a certain point guard out of Gonzaga, bring him back to 2012
The salaries are such, that you could do a straight up Harris for Calderon deal. It might even be worth it to include either Bell or Miles in the deal as well, if that’s what it would take to get it done.
I doubt the Raptors would pull the trigger though.
Rondo
Nash
Agustin
wow!
An idea:
Miles + Harris + Okur’s money= Rondo
Celtics wouldn’t trade Rondo for only Harris, Miles and money. They’re thinking how to rebuild. They would want Favors, Kanter or our warriors pick… Something big. A Rondo deal would be a blockbuster. As for Nash, his contract is up at the end of this year. For Augustin we’d prob have to give Harris and our Okur money. Maybe even take on one of their contracts like Diop’s to make it work. If they could make money off the deal, that’s our best bet. Also, I remember Harris being in trade talks to Charlotte a lot over the last two seasons. They seem to like his game…
Guido is right on with this one. It would take a different mix to acquire Rondo though. Likely draft picks, but for Rondo it would be worth it. We have the talent we just HAVE to get someone that can get them the ball in position to score.
The ‘Okur money’ doesn’t exist. Its a trade exception. It means a team that wants to dump salary will trade us a player that fits into the exception ($10M) and in return THEY get the exception. You can’t combine it with a player, it has to be a straight-up 1 player for the trade exception. This very rarely happens. We only got Al Jefferson this way because David Kahn is David Kahn. Usually the exception goes unused and expires, which basically means it was a salary dump.
This means the type of person you can GET with a trade exception is going to be a player that a team just wants to get rid of so they can save salary. Say they drafted an awesome rookie who they want to develop, but they have an older player with a large salary in the same position. (imagine Favors and Okur). THAT’s the player you’ll get with a trade exception, if it even gets used. So don’t get your hopes up on that.
KC I respect your opinion but the trade exception money can be used, and likely will. We used an exception like this with Booz and Jefferson. Look for this to be in a package deal.
For your reference:
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7381599/new-jersey-nets-acquire-mehmet-okur-utah-jazz-draft-pick
It’s just a matter of HOW it can be used.
I think KC is right. I learn something new everyday. So in order to get anyone decent, we can pretty much kiss CJ or our warriors pick goodbye.
Chase – its not my ‘opinion’, its the NBA Rules. Here, go learn something: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#Other_exceptions
Its not money. Its a trade exception. You can only use it in a certain way. So tell me, what teams want to send us a $10M player for nothing in return? Trade exceptions are not as useful as you think they are. Teams for the most part want to get better, and sending away a $10M player for no player in return usually doesn’t make them better. The only instances it is useful is when it helps a team get under the luxury tax OR get under the salary cap so they have room to sign a free agent OR, like in the Jazz’ case, an overloaded position with a highly paid 3rd-string player that isn’t going to see much playing time with us.
That said, I do see the possibility that Charlotte might bite on a DJ Augustin for a trade exception and a draft pick, since Kemba is the future at PG, they would get a pick (important to a re-building franchise) and save money on DJ’s contract. BUT, in my opinion, Augustin is not a lot different than Devin Harris.
Going to be tough to find a good deal for Harris right now. He is playing horribly. Toronto, Charlotte, LAL, and NYK are the only teams I can see even being possibly interested. I can see possibly Suns but that’s a stretch and a Rondo trade would require Devin, one of our 4 bigs, and draft picks. Rondo trade would likely inolve more than one team. But it’s not impossible. I can see them doing it if they could move a couple of the big 4 there and get 2 solid pieces with good draft picks.
I conjured up a few scenarios on the trade machine at espn.com:
-As mentioned before with toronto we could do a straight across trade for Calderon
-Charlotte would work if we took Diop along with Augustin…
-Not sure how NYK could even make an offer.
-Lakers could offer Blake and Walton(please no!)
-i made various 4 teamers with Boston along with Houston, GS, Indiana, and even Orlando but involved trading Harris and Big Al. But I don’t think we want to move Al at this point.
I’m telling you, we have a serious chance of championship contention if we rent Ray Allen for the season using that TE.
I think we are borderline title contenders if we get nash. We need three point shooting so bad. Maybe we will unload miles as well because his expiring contract will be desired. Calderon is my next choice.
As for where Harris can go, I can’t really imagine a team other than the Lakers wanting him. Maybe there’s some three-team deal that can be worked out to everyone’s benefit, since none of the excess pieces from the Lakers are guys we can really use.
Don’t forget that this post is about WHO you would like and not HOW you think it’s possible to get. The “how” is KOC’s job after all !!
In 24 hours, I’ll post the result of this “who Jazz Nation wants” poll …
KC? Learn something? kiss my a$$. Like I said it’s a matter of HOW it is used. When I said that the trade money can be used I meant it. I didn’t say that we’d get 10.8 in cash. I know how it can be used. You’re obviously not very smart. Here’s something for you to learn; don’t use wikipedia as a reference, whether you’re right or not.
LOL @Chase. HOW its used is only one way: A team trades you a player for the trade exception. You have yet to tell me what teams want to give us a great $10M player for nothing. You are saying that Boston wants to GIVE us Ray Allen? Yes, please keep calling ME stupid. LOL.
I don’t think it would be tough trading Harris. He is a good player but does not fit the system here so teams might see it just like that. yeah they might low ball us but I dot think that the jazz will bite on any bad offer.
Also, don’t expect any trade that includes anyone other than Harris picks and money. The jazz have something here and are not dumb enough to mix it up. That being said they might not trade Harris until they get a better feel on how this team really is. Rondo is out of the question, we would be giving up too much. The only straight across deal I could see is Felton, Calderon and augustin. Not too excited about any of them. I wouldn’t mind getting some picks and a young PG.
Why the hell would we just give LA Harris? They have nothing we want – need a 3rd team.
Now the trade exception can’t be used directly with other players but indirectly it can be worked out. To quote Larry Coon from ESPN “Teams receive trade exceptions when they trade one player and take back less salary than they send away. Teams don’t get a trade exception when they send players together, although it’s often possible to reconfigure a multiplayer trade as separate, parallel single-player trades in order to gain trade exceptions.”
THIS is what I was referring to. Sorry for the confusion.
I’m not saying we won’t use our trade exception. But you’ve got to realize who we’ll get for it, if it gets used at all. It WON’T be for a team’s starter.
@KC and Chase:
KC – I’m usually totally on the same page with you, but you’re dead wrong about the usage of trade exceptions. Heck, here’s a quote from the same (dubious) wikipedia resource you linked.
“Teams with a trade exception have up to a year in which they can acquire more salary in other trades (Trade #2, #3, etc.) than they send away, as long as the gulf in salaries for Trade #2, #3, etc. are less than or equal to the difference in salary for Trade #1. This exception is particularly useful when teams trade draft picks straight-up for a player; since draft picks have no salary value, often the only way to get salaries to match is to use a trade exception, which allows trades to be made despite unbalanced salaries.”
Note that it mentions that it’s particularly useful when used to trade a draft pick straight up for a player, but that’s definitely not the ONLY way a TE is utilized. There are exceptions and a ton of rigmarole in the NBA rules that can make it not universally carry its full worth, but basically the exception can work to even out the $$ in any type of trade or multiple trades.
The point of it all is, and your Larry Coon quote shows you understand this, is that the trade exception by itself is not really very valuable. It’s not going to get us anything great or team-changing. We’ll still need to include players, draft picks, etc. to really get any sort of upgrade at any of our positions, which is the point of trading, IMO — make your team better.
… that’s the reason why the “HOW” is outside the scope of this post: that’s KOC’s job !
Did I say Ray Allen? No I didn’t. All I’m saying is that there is a possibility that someone may want it. Maybe. Afterall we did get Al Jefferson with it and he’s pretty good right?
That is exactly KOC’s job. He’s the one that said Utah “would be aggressive” with the exception. Him, not me.
PS. I’m not mad at your KC, I just want our team to get better by any means necessary. Whether it’s a trade exception or not it would be nice to work something out for a good, pass first guard. Go Jazz!
(but I appreciate the exchange)
I’ll give you that Al is good, and that we got him via our trade exception. This might very well be the best use of a trade exception in the history of the NBA. Also, remember that almost everyone around was baffled that Minni would give him away. Why trade that player for nothing when you could trade him for SOMETHING? (They did also get a protected 1st-round pick from us, to be fair) Its because David Kahn is David Kahn and they valued Kevin Love more than Al Jefferson. So there are possibilities, but a trade like that for a good player is rare, and for the most part, trade exceptions go unused.
Oh the Ray Allen mention was Chris. Sorry about that.
Its all good, Chase. I would love to steal another Al Jefferson for a trade exception, don’t get me wrong. I love lopsided trades in our favor and I hope KOC keeps pulling them off somehow. Just trying to be realistic on what we could get for the trade exception.
I think the jazz would have to go up to much to get one of those guys. All those teams would want more than Harris, Bell or Miles. I don’t think Rondo would want to play here. I think drafting a guard could be our best bet if we can get a pick or keep the GS pick.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Lamar Odom was traded for an exception to the Mavs wasn’t he?
The more I think about it, I think Calderon, Augustin, or MAYBE Nash are the only possible options.
Toronto wouldn’t do a straight up trade they would want one of our bigs. I think we would have to give up to much for Augustin as well. Nash has a couple more years left but what does he really do for the future of this franchise
You guys are all right-a team is going to one several pieces in order to give up one of the PGs, luckily Utah has a variety of assets that put us in position to make a move. I guess it’s just a matter of the appropriate move being possible. Rondo would be ideal for me, but that would take a lot. Unfortunately this draft isn’t too rich with PG prospect, other than the man from NC. To me it looks like the Jazz want to win now and rely on the draft later. So, personally I’m anticipating another move.
KCJones…I have faith that KOC will put the Okur trade exception to good use. He seemed genuinely excited after the deal went down (he rarely shows excitement), and said he had the green light from Greg Miller to go “shopping.”
Unlike some past trade exceptions, I think this one will get used. Were well below the luxury tax, and have a few more players coming off the books at the end of the season (including Howard and Miles). The Jazz will have some cap space to play around with.
Rondo is a hothead and a sore loser. His attitude is not something that would be good around our young guys. He wants a big market and all the attention he can get, so I’d be surprised if he even agreed to suit up for us for one game. Not long ago, he threw a remote through a TV at the Celtics’ practice facility when he was criticized and left. I’ve never liked him. I also think he is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. Take away the big 3 and his numbers would plummet. He’d be just an average PG on a team without stars that draw double teams and get the refs on their side. Leave the pouty little elf in Boston. Let’s get a PG that can make everyone better and be a true leader for the young guys. Calderon is certainly an upgrade over Harris and probably our best bet aside from simply being patient enough to get a PG in the draft and let him develop.
Interesting debate.
My questions are this: WTH is “trade exeption”, is that good to “trade” players??, We use Booz, Maynor and Brewer ones?.
We could be a really good team if we can bring the right people guys. I founds this ther…
1. A trade exception is a right for the Jazz to acquire any player via trade without either actually trading anyone or worrying about salary cap figures (however luxury tax penalties still apply).
So, in an ordinary world the if the Jazz traded for a guy making $15 million, they’d have to give up anywhere between $12-18 million in contracts (assuming both teams are over the salary cap). With a trade exception the Jazz can take on an extra player and contract without giving anything up.
2. They expire in 1 year.
This means they have until December to use the exception for Harpring/Maynor, February for the one from Ronnie B., and now next July for the one from Boozer.
3. Trade exceptions cannot be combined
The Jazz cannot acquire a player with a $9 million salary by combining both the Harpring/Maynor and Ronnie B. exceptions. However, the exception can be used on more than 1 player (say 3 players whose salaries total $16 million via the Boozer trade exception).
4. Why are they useful? Why would another team give up a quality player without getting anything in return?
So the question now is… Who need this !@#$%? Which player fit better for this team??? who finally would come to Utah? Who want to come here?
I really like a lot Rondo for this team: He´s leader, he´s star, He passes, and could defend, etc.
I like Calderon too instead.
Rondo is extremely arrogant and egotistical. NOT a good fit for the Jazz. Never, ever, ever, going to happen. He would never play here. Don’t waste your time.
what are we willing to give up for calderon
In the comments section of this article it looks like Lakers fans really want him. lol
I think everyone opposed to Nash forgets that he has an expiring contract. If we get him we have a great shot to go far in the playoffs and then even if he leaves after this year we have a big chunk of salary to throw at a free agent.
Rondo & Nash aren’t very realistic possibilities unless other pieces are involved. I’d take Calderon first, then Augustin. I’d be happy to take Miller too. Not too high on Felton though
I think that Jazz, if they are going to trade, should trade young.
The Warriors aren’t to far from blowing up the roster they have because of how egocentric the team is. I believe if the jazz were to offer Harris, bell, and Miles, plus the trade exception they could get John Wall.
I beleive this could be a great trade. This could be the idea of being young and developing together Imagine a future lineup of Wall,Hayward,favors,Kanter,Burks.
I have not read where LA wants Harris, but if its so, we need to get on that and quick… Keep them from getting Dwill and reducing his choices to NY in the East or Dallas. The last thing I want is Dwill with Kobe.
Find a way to do a 3 way to get harris there and us a guard. Nash is too old. We are rebuilding and relearning as a team, not finding a last piece that might not be around in a year or two.
Rondos a cancer in the locker room.
I’m fine with any of the others. We do need a PG that can shoot and assist as our SG’s feel like they have been failing at the Shooting of their SG spot.
I say we stick with Harris if we have to trade any of our big 4 away. Bells, Miles, Harris are on the table. Nobody else imo.
Oh and Chase, your wrong about wikipedia. Britanica had like 2 errors per thousand pages and Wikipedia ended up only have 3 errors per the same amount of looks ups.
Its used in fields such as IT etc as a reference in many schools. Food for thought when trying to put someone down.
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1038_3-5997332.html
2.8 errors to 3.8
Nash, Kidd and Miller would be a great veteran presence to help develop our young core BUT we would more that likely only get about 2 more seasons out of each of them. I love watching Rondo’s dribbling and passing skills but he doesn’t fit here. Augustine or Calderon might work out really well.
Lowry is the all around best at scoring, assists and 3 pt %. It is important to find the guy that would fit our system the best and flourish, even if he isn’t considered an all star. Lawson would also be a nice addition
Rondo would be best. He is performing well, and is locked into a contract for several yrs. He also is young enough to mesh with our other players.
Augustine would be nice, but he is finishing up his contract. Next season we would have to match someone else for his rights. Thats a gamble, what do you see happening there?
Everyone else on the list is old. Nice, so we get better for a yr, or two, then we are right back where we started.
I read that the clippers are wanting to unload Mo Williams. How about using our trade exception for him and then working a trade where Harris buys us some talent at the 2?
My concern is how the team handles a trade like this, and whether it disrupts their chemistry. It looks like they were all pretty ticked when this rumor came up:
(Raja Bell) “The locker room and the practice court, this is supposed to be a safe haven. After you (media) guys leave, no disrespect intended, we don’t want to deal with that BS anymore. We’re here to work. We’re here to get better. Dev’s a big part of what we do.”
But Earl Watson’s postgame remarks are also very telling. To me, the look on his face said “Don’t take me out of the game if I’m the one coming to play.” I don’t think we need to clamour for a trade at this point. But I do think that Corbin needs to give playing time at the PG position depending on who is performing. I’ve said it before: I don’t care if Harris starts and Watson comes off the bench (I actually think it suits them both better that way), but let Watson finish in the 4th quarter if he’s outperforming Harris.
Mo Williams, Nah and Augustin would be great.
Mo- Still young (enough) and currenlty shooting the lights out in LA.
Nash- Maybe we could sign him for another year and he could help develop a young pg that we draft…
Augustin- Maybe not the future, but a real deep threat and a solid passer. Perfect for in & out game.