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Flopper Fines
Posted by: Jazzaholic on September 28th, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.King David announced that the games will be reviewed after the game and fines accessed for flopping.
Will it help…Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
“Johnny hit me in the head with a spit-wad.”
“Well, we’ll have to review the security footage after class and see, if we should take away his elastic.”
“Ouch! He did it again.”
So goes the NBA.
If a player is making $10m and gets fined $5,000, it’s like most people getting a $10 fine, which is less than a speeding ticket. It makes some revenue, but doesn’t deter speeding.
So, what would reduce the flopping?
How about calling the charge/block correctly?
I know, it’s too much to ask, that a player have an established position BEFORE the offensive player makes his move, but that would reduce the sliding, moving, jumping in the path, leaning and selling of the “charge”, ie, flopping.
When you reward players, for not playing by the rules, by not making the calls, you enable flopping.
It’s the same thing with illegal (moving) screens, traveling and “star treatment.”
After you’ve raised a few kids, you realize that most rules are never enforced and should be dropped. Keep the rules, which are really worthwhile and enforce them, consistently, every time, at the time…not 2 days later.
Your dog wets on your couch. Two days later you swat him with a newspaper. WHAT THE HECK! What was that for? Crazy human!
If it doesn’t affect the game outcome, why not keep doing it?
King David says he wants to go slow and take minimal action to correct the problem.
This has been going on for how many years?
How about a 4th official, in the booth, for every game, who reviews the charge/block or illegal screen for a flop, making the call at the time? The penalty would be an immediate correction of the poorly called play (educating the refs) and penalizing the flopper!
Just a thought from my addled mind. It’ll never happen.
Go slow. Slap wrists.
Yea…That ought to do it.
Poor officiating, star treatment and bad acting are ruining the game we all love.
Jazzaholic
Replies: 27
Views: 1057
27 Responses
I had the same reaction when I heard it. Why won’t this guy just go away?? Retire already!
What would it take?
Maybe 10 more refs at most! There are a maximum of 15 possible games in any one night, but usually 5-6 average, since they stagger the games.
Just think of all the missed out of bounds calls and time clock violations, which could be corrected in the flow of the game. If the floor refs disagree, they could then take some time to review it.
With the new CBA, and extra revenue for the league, the salary of 10 extra refs would never even show up on the ballance sheet.
Jazzaholic
I get the impression that David Locke feels that if a player is good enough to get away with it, it’s an added devensive tool.
I’m sad to see players go away from playing actual defense and instead flopping…selling the foul.
I like good basketball, not good acting, at least on the floor.
Wouldn’t you rather see players make a great steal or block, instead of a flop, a snow angel and a rendition of the worm?
Jazzaholic
Yes@jazzaholic I completely agree I hate flopping!
The worst to me is the head flop when someone at the top of the key is going around and there body gets some contact and there head flails around like they just got hit in the head. When all they got was a little contact. Parker and CP3 are the worst at this
Perhaps we should call that the “whiplash” flop?
If they do a whiplash flop, they need to be evaluated for concussion syndrome and sit out a few plays.
Can’t be too careful
Jazzaholic
I know officiating is pretty subjective and open to interpretation but how about giving the officials an option to call a “flopping foul” or something and impose a penalty like 2 free throws and possession. Or better yet, create a penalty box and enforce 2 minute penalties giving the other team a power play, a la hockey.
I feel like a flopping penalty should be like a 3 second call. On defense you get the technical foul and on offense the ball goes to the other team
Good thoughts.
Immediate penalties are much more effective than delayed, after the game fines.
Jazzaholic
I know this would never happen and I am not a hockey fan but how about if they flop they get a 2 minute penalty and they have to sit in the box. No sub so it is 4 on 5. I hate flop with a passion and the Jazz have a few that do it too. Learn to play the game the way it was meant to be played.
If the game is poorly officiated, the Jazz, along with all the rest of the teams will, and must, take advantage of it. If the refs don’t call the block correctly, all the teams will sell the “foul”, with flopping, moaning, groaning etc, to gain competitive advantage.
It’s up to King David to direct the refs to start calling the charge/block correctly.
Jazzaholic
The decree from on high…King David,
“Flopping” will be defined as any physical act that appears to have been intended to cause the referees to call a foul on another player. The primary factor in determining whether a player committed a flop is whether his physical reaction to contact with another player is inconsistent with what would reasonably be expected given the force or direction of the contact. Physical acts that constitute legitimate basketball plays (such as moving to a spot in order to draw an offensive foul) and minor physical reactions to contact will not be treated as flops. Any player who is determined to have committed a flop during the regular season will be subject to the following: Violation 1: Warning. Violation 2: $5,000 fine. Violation 3: $10,000 fine. Violation 4: $15,000 fine. Violation 5: $30,000 fine.”
Small price to pay for a multi millionaire. Knock off 3 of those zeros and you get an idea of an ordinary wage earners value.
Jazzaholic
I am calling there will be at least one person fined that didn’t deserve it.
Is it a flop if someone gets their Ankle broken on a killer crossover? They fell but were not touched…
That’s an easy one to call.
It’s the charge/block and the moving screen, with a flop, which is meant to fool the refs. When the flopper starts to fall from the air conditioning breeze, then you’ve got the biggest offender.
Another problem is when a player falls, the refs think they have to blow the whistle. How many time do we see a player trip over his own feet and get free throws.
Allen Iverson used to fall after every shot. Frequently he got free throws, despite no one touching him.
Jazzaholic
The National Basketball Players Association said Wednesday “it will file a grievance and unfair labor practices charge against the NBA over new disciplinary guidelines aimed at curtailing flopping.” “The NBA is not permitted to unilaterally impose new economic discipline against the players without first bargaining with the union,” executive director Billy Hunter said in a statement.
Ahhh, Billy Goat is at it again.
Jazzaholic
I’m expecting an amendment to come down soon detailing which players will be given immunity to this new rule. Something like:
“The following players, due to their God like stature and nondescript value to this league, have been given full immunity to the new “flopping” rule: Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Manu Ginobili, Dirk Nowitzki, Tony Parker, Derek Fisher, Dwayne Wade, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant, Paul Pierce, and Carmelo Anthony. The preceding players will also be given immunity from calls like traveling, carrying the ball, and technical fouls. We cannot possibly hold our star players to the same standards as the rest. We hope that players and fans alike understand and accept these changes.”
Geeee, I thought they already had immunity
David Locke said today on his podcast that he didn’t think flopping was that big a deal.
If the refs would call the charge/block correctly and make the defensive player be set BEFORE the offensive player can’t alter his course, I would agree.
It is a ref problem in not calling the play right in the first place and then being sold on a foul after the missed call.
Jazzaholic
Steve Kyler:
The charge is a legitimate basketball rule… getting rid of it and putting an arbitrary “egregious case” rule isn’t the answer.
The answer is technology. There are a couple of tech companies that have developed real-time wafer-sized sensors that can be placed inside the NBA jersey… these senors can measure all kinds of things including how much force was exerted against a player.
We can, in real-time, measure what was real forceful contact and what was a solid acting job.
I think inside the next five years we’ll see this kind of tech embedded in the NBA gear and a whole new world of statistical data will emerge as a result.
I applaud the NBA for trying to do something now… not sure what is on the table is the best long-term solution, but we have seen in the past that the NBA has enacted change in behavior through these kinds of fines. Guys don’t bitch at officials nearly as much as they used to… guys are dressing better. This won’t get rid of all flopping, but it will change some of it and thats a good thing.
If the NBA can get 50% of rampant flopping out of the game, the game is better because of it.
Mark Cuban is uncertain whether the fine system will improve the on-court product. “It depends on whether or not it changes how flopping in game is called. “If it just causes the refs to give floppers the benefit of the doubt knowing the league can deal with it after the fact, it could have some unintended consequences. “A big question is going to be how much depth of explanation is going to be given when a fine is [assessed] and whether or not the league will enforce teams paying the fines for the players who get caught flopping.”
“We sit around watching these games sometimes and go, ‘These dudes go down like somebody shot them,’” Barkley says. Which reminds Van Gundy of another idea. “Sometimes in these games, you do get a meeting of the offensive flopper and the defensive flopper, and it becomes who can flop the best,” Van Gundy says. “It’s so bad, I think they should go head to head by themselves and there should be a halftime feature: Battle of the Floppers.” What? First guy to three floor burns wins? “You know, they’re lucky I’m not a referee,” Van Gundy continued, “because if I were a referee and somebody intentionally got away with making me look stupid by flopping, why, I’d …” I know … “… hammer them,” Van Gundy said.
Ginobili, oft-accused of practicing the flop in the past, said he doesn’t think the new rules will do much to change the way the game is played. “It’s going to be very hard to determine when it’s a flop and when it’s not,” Ginobili said. “There’s a lot of contact, a lot of heavy players, and it can be tricky. I don’t think (fining players) is going to happen much.”
Griffin, though, wasn’t confident that the rule would decrease flopping. “It’s a good way for the NBA to get more money,” he said. Under a new league rule, the NBA will issue warnings, fines and even suspensions to players who flop excessively. “Flops have no place in our game – they either fool referees into calling undeserved fouls or fool fans into thinking the referees missed a foul call,” said Stu Jackson, NBA executive vice president of basketball operations.
Though many players across the league were outspoken Wednesday in their support of the NBA’s anti-flopping attempts, the National Basketball Players Association announced its intention to file a grievance arguing any new economic forms of discipline must be collectively bargained. “Obviously, flopping isn’t a good thing for the game,” Bonner said. “The question is, how do you police it? Fining seems a bit extreme, to say the least.” Bonner is a proponent of the system employed by FIBA, international basketball’s ruling body, which allows game officials to assess a technical foul to a player suspected of flopping. “”You look at what they do in Europe, with the technical, that seems more in line,” Bonner said. “It’s enough of a deterrent to keep guys from flopping. Fining guys, I don’t think is necessary.”
‘‘It’s certain people’s game nowadays,’’ Bulls guard Rip Hamilton said. ‘‘It’s their actual game, flopping. Anytime you play, with the rules and things like that, guys are going to figure out ways to adjust and to do stuff that you’re not supposed to do, and then they’re going to come back with another rule, so I really don’t get into that.’’ Center Joakim Noah was all for it and wondered why it took so long. ‘‘Flopping is annoying,’’ he said. ‘‘It’s a good rule. I just hope . . . it’s going to be hard to enforce, because it’s pretty opinionated.’’
In some unofficial polls, Dirk Nowitzki said he’s seen himself listed as high as second-team All-NBA when it comes to flopping to try to induce a foul call.
He’s not completely disagreeing with that, by the way. And it’s why he’s very much opposed to the new rule from the NBA that is going to start penalizing players who flop to try to get a referee to blow his whistle.
“I never looked at myself as a big flopper,” Nowitzki said Thursday after the Mavericks arrived in Germany for their preseason opener Saturday. “If you play me physical then, obviously, I’ve got to sell the call and get to the [free throw] line. That’s just part of the game. We’ll have to see how they enforce that.
“I think it’s a bunch of crap to be honest with you. Are they going to come back after a game and fine you for flopping? That’s tough to do to me.”
Battier will look at you with a straight face and tell you he’s not one of the NBA’s serial floppers. “Listen, I don’t flop like a lot of these guys,” Battier said. “I know a lot of people say I flop, but I’m too old for that.” Then, after a few minutes of bantering, Battier will tell you he’s “wholeheartedly against” the NBA’s new “anti-flopping” rule. “Reputation may play a big role in it,” Battier said.
“If they push me, I’ve got to fall. We’ll see what happens.” J.J. Barea, Minnesota Timberwolves guard, on the NBA’s announced intention to crack down on flopping. Barea has been known to go down rather easily.