Meet
Going Forward
Posted by: Jazzaholic on March 20th, 2013
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.The Jazz are currently in a free fall and a loss to being out of the playoff race. So, the playoffs look unlikely.
Coaching: Ty has another year on his contract, but has been a lightening rod for critics of his substitution patterns, starting lineups, young player development/minutes and improvement in his coaching ability. He has done a good job of keeping the highest paid, longest tenured veterans happy.
Greg Miller seems more concerned with the bottom line, and appears to be happier with the extra revenue of a couple of playoff games, and not likely to want to pay Ty for a year, like he was forced to do with Toxic Raja. Also, Ty is still developing and once the Jazz shed themselves of most of the old vets, who are free agents, he will be forced to play/develop the kids (Can you say Money Ball?)
Prediction: One more year for Ty.
Money Ball: Dennis gets his first opportunity to make an imprint on the Jazz in the Draft and Free Agency. Will he let the dead wood go? Will he keep the contracts short? Will he push a Team Option in the final year, to make players more easily traded and give the Jazz greater flexibility? Will he push for a coaching change? Will he play Money Ball to shape the starting lineup?
Prediction: Kevin and Greg will give him some great latitude, to use his advanced metrics, and scouting, to mold the team. I think he’ll be decisive and we’ll have a new Sheriff in town.
June 27th Draft: It’s way too early to tell even who will be in the draft yet or how many picks the Jazz will use or trade. Here’s some draft predictions from nbadraft.net.
14. Mason Plumlee 6-11 240 PF Duke Sr.
21. Roy Gobert 7-1 230 C France
44. Michael Snaer 6-5 200 SG Florida State Sr.
Where are all those point guards?
Prediction: This late in the draft, they’ll be lucky to get a good rotation player. Let’s hope Dennis and Kevin can work some magic!
July 1st Free Agency: The Jazz look to have 7 returning players and 7 unrestricted Free Agents. The Jazz will have $34m-$36m in cap space, but $51,487,513 in Cap Holds. The cap space only comes into play, if they renounce the player’s Bird Rights or he signs with another team.
Prediction:
Big Al’s defense, ball sticking and high price make him expendable, despite his great teammate/mentor qualities. The Jazz let him go and renounce his rights, if cap space is needed.
Millsap tends to stick the ball and isn’t a starter against bigger starting power forwards. He doesn’t want to come off the bench, so Dennis plays Money Ball with Ty and let’s him walk.
Mo Williams has been injured and is more of a scorer than a point guard. There will be a shortage of point guards for the Jazz to select from, so it will come down to salary, contract length and other players in free agency or trades. He probably resigns at a lower ($8.5m) salary for a 2-3 year deal, hopefully with a Team Option in the last year.
Randy Foye, $2.5m, was having a great year until lately. He’s expressed a desire to come back and adds that ever more important 3 ball to the roster. He’s not the rebounder that Alec and Gordon are, but if he’s willing to sign for around the same salary, the Jazz probably bring him back for another year or two.
Earl Watson, $2.3m, and Jamaal Tinsley, $1.35m, need to plan on another team. They’re old and can’t score. They’re a liability on the offensive and defensive end of the court. Not a good combination. Despite their low salary, they’re gone.
DeMarre Caroll, $.85m, should have every effort made to resign him. Per dollar salary, he’s been the most productive player on the team! A Pogo type contract should be realistic, plus he should get more consistent minutes in the rotation, as Dennis hopefully plays Money Ball with Ty.
Is this the year Atomic (Ante Tomic) the willowy 7-2 C decides to try to move from Madrid to the NBA? Do the Jazz still even have an interest?
Final Prediction: Next year may not end up any better than this year, but we’ll finally start to see the kids get their opportunity to start and play a significant role. It will be a year where the Jazz will be poised for salary dumps, from tax payers, amnestied players (because they will be under the cap), Free Agents and waivers. Dennis will keep the salaries low and the contracts short, unless that special player unexpectedly becomes available.
Jazzaholic
Replies: 48
Views: 1007
48 Responses
For Mo being not really effective and injured often I don’t see him coming back for more than a two year 5 mill each year. Calderon will be a UFA pick him up instead.
Try a S&T for AL Try a front loaded 4 yr 44 mill for Sap..
Foye about the same and give JYD a good raise (In the Evans range.
By all means say goodbye to Watson/Tinsley..
I do not know why people keep suggesting more drafts or trades to replace our current rosters. Our bench rank 1st in scoring. In contrast, our starters rank dead last. If we all have been watching the same Utah Jazz, it’s pretty conclusive that our bench is more talented than our own starters. Is it an embarrassment or insulting to the starters if all their roles were reversed? Could this be the reason why Corbin doesn’t want to start and end with the reserves? Just like the game against the Rockets just now, Corbin had to leave Jefferson in the game in the entire second half. I am almost at the point where I am looking forward to next season with the dream line-up: Burks, Hayward, Carroll, Favors, and Kanter, and Evans to get more backup minutes.
I lost my thought, but I meant to write that invest and develop in the talents we have. They have shown what they are capable, just lack experience and cohesion.
I have no doubt that Al will be gone this summer, and most likely Paul as well. If we have any luck Mo will also be gone. I’m hoping the Jazz make a play for Monte Ellis or Jarrett Jack, both these players have shown flashes of greatness and with a solid team around them like the Jazz they’ll do great.
The Jazz have the 3 draft picks this year, unless they make a trade to move up, so, the 2 first round picks are guaranteed contracts and, thus on the team. Whether they improve the team or not is unknown.
They could also make a sign and trade with a team not in the luxury tax.
Those can all happen, along with FA signings and still develop the kids. They have to have a 13 man roster. Core4, Pogo, Marvin, Kevin, JD and 2 or 3 draft picks doesn’t leave a lot of roster spots open. Using #14 and #21 to move up or drafting a foreign player could free up more roster spots, but ideally the 13 players give the most flexibility in trades or taking on salary.
A lot will depend on who’s available, but there should be some opportunities.
Jazzaholic
I’m just watching the game on the DVR. If you hung around for the 4th quarter, did you notice how well the co-point guard, Alec and Gordon, combination plays?
If you look at Alec/Gordon as your starting point guard and 36 minutes/game. All they need is a couple of solid backup PGs. That gives you better defense, rebounding and scoring from your guards. Obviously, Ty has to be forced to play that combination.
Jazzaholic
@lk – 11 mil a year for Millsap is ridiculous. I hope they play money ball
What I don’t get is players on contract years USUALLY step up and play harder, why cant these guys?
Please No Paul, No MO, No Watson, NO AL, and definitely #FIRECORBIN
“Ty has to be forced” that’s a good one.
Ty will definitely be back until his contract ends, just praying he would not be resign him for another 3 years or longer.
Got a feeling Al & Paul will leave, Paul has not been the usual, feels like he has lost his heart somewhere, I blame that on Corbin.
Bye to Watson & Tinsley too, they have been hanging in the Jazz too long, time to say goodbyt to both of them and inject some new blood.
Mo will be here next year & starting PG as well, Corbin loves using the vet so Mo will be a starter.
Favor, good defensive skill but skill not a offensive threat. Somehow I got a feeling Jeremy Evans is a better PF than Favor, dose anyone agree? So Free Jeremy Evan!!!
@Chan Watching the few minutes that Evans played was kind of scary because I could imagine how good he was. Favors is still a little inconsistent on the offensive end, but I think he has shown has diverse moves.
Pogo performs WHEN he gets a chance…like the rest of the kids!
Favors/Kanter, and the rest of the kids, have a hard time playing with the “sticky” vets, who don’t play defense.
Anybody seen JD? Effective off the bench, hard time playing with the vets and starting, then relegated to the outer limits of hell.
Yes, the kids comeback forced Ty to sit on his hands and watch. It’s rare for Ty not to give into the vets and automatically put them back in.
Jazzaholic
Jazzaholic:
Any theories on the Jazz free fall?
Thoughts on Corbin’s coaching?
Steve Kyler (HoopsWorld):
“I don’t want to believe this, but it seems like Ty Corbin has lost his team… not sure, if that is him or them, but the Jazz are just not in synch and it shows on the floor.
Wonder is Stan Van Gundy would consider the Jazz this summer? He’d be a great fit.”
Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-rumors-chat-with-steve-kyler-32113/#rJm4vyDX7dQdfg3z.99
Locke has a good shot chart on moneyball shooting, or as most people call it…s#!t shots, ie layups and 3 point shots are the most effective methods of scoring.
http://weareutahjazz.com/lockedonjazz/
Jazzaholic
I think the Jazz overall plan is great. I think it backfired a bit this year, especially since the FO chose the wrong personnel (Tyronius Corbinus) for their strategy (win while developing young guys), because Ty has a crazy weird veteran bias. I also think the FO delayed too long in keeping Al (should have been traded LAST year’s trade deadline) and Paul (Traded this year’s trade deadline) for future picks, young players. Favors was ready last year to have a bigger role after the trade deadline. Kanter was ready THIS year after the trade deadline. But what do I know what trades were available? I can only see that the Nets gave the pick that became Damian Lillard for Gerald Wallace and I wonder why we didn’t get in on that. Isn’t Al a better player than G-Wallace?? Or Millsap? So I assume we could have, but I could be wrong. Anyway. I’m ready to fire Corbin, hire a coach who’s going to be better at constructing a team and identity around our core guys strengths, and focuses on defense (I like Stan Van Gundy, but others would probably work too). If we KEEP Corbin, I don’t trust him with a single veteran on the roster. So I wouldn’t re-sign any of them. However if we got the right coach that can evaluate talent and assign roles correctly, I would want to keep Foye and Marvin and Tinsley. Their roles are 3-pt bench threat, bench wing defender, and 3rd string PG.
Tyronius, I love it, does have a flexibility and adventure problem. He loves being loved by the vets and wants to please. If Dennis forces Money Ball down his throat, maybe he can make it work. Change his defensive scheme to force s#!t shots and eliminate s#!t shots from the offense. But, I don’t think Greg is willing to foot his salary for the year or Dennis has the guts/power yet to make the change. So, Tyrouius Rex for another year.
Jazzaholic
First of all of the Van Gundy’s, there is a Steve and Jeff.Both have coached but I think Jeff has put on the headphones and Steve was Dwight’s coach. Correct? As long as the Jazz don’t have a D-Will, Howard, or Crymelo on the team I think he would be ok. I think everyone is assuming that Corbin will finish out his contract.Media says he is gone if Jazz do not make the playoffs. Fans, Players will not accept another season like this one. Win, lose, or draw with the kids..
You’re right about Jeff, L.K., but it’s “Stan” not “Steve”
Lol, KC: “Tyronius Corbinus”!!!
Does anybody have a +/- stat on when Burks and Hayward are on the floor together??? I bet it is ridiculously high compared to Waston/Foye; Mo/Foye!
@Taco: I meant Stan. This age thing you know..
@Omar: DN talked about the stat and it is not even close. The other combos are not even close. The thing is paired up with Favors/Kanter/Evans,or JYD they would run most teams out of the gym. There must be a deal up front to play the vets. The only thing I can figure out is the Jazz are tanking without admitting to it..
Some of the guys on 1280 were talking with Jeff Van Gundy on the phone about the Jazz a month or so ago. He said he wouldn’t rule out a return to coaching, and then made a joke about the money.
Translation: for the right price,he’ll coach.
Unfortunately, I legitimitately doubt this franchise’s committment to winning–personnel or financial. They’ll pay Al $15 to be the embodiement of mediocrity, but wont pay a few million for a real coach.
*$15 MILLION that is.
Oh I was like $15, that sounds about right…
$15…That’s more than I get paid
Play the vets, tank the season. Interesting concept. I think that’s giving too much credit to the FO or Ty. At any rate, mission accomplished. If they can drop behind POR and DAL, at least they can move up 2 spots in the draft.
The constant question comes up again and again…would starting the Core4 do any worse?
It would sure allow more development in players you know for sure are coming back.
I just don’t think Ty…rannosaurus Rex can change his inbred tendency to play the vets, without external pressure or Money Ball, which is too late for this season. Does this doom him to extinction?
I just can’t see Greg footing his last year’s salary.
A lot will depend on the draft and FA.
How will Dennis mold this roster?
Jazzaholic
I just looked up Atomic and on July 5, 2012, Ante Tomic signed for Barça Regal for three seasons, with the option to one more.
So, no chance the Jazz go nuclear.
Jazzaholic
Why isn’t anyone talking about bringing Sloan back? We’ve heard numerous times about how Sloan would like to coach again. This Jazz team lacks toughness and Coach Sloan is just what the doctor ordered. Unfortunately Ty doesn’t have what it takes. Against Houston big Al was a big time liability. He did some stuff on the offensive end but did anyone else notice how incapable he was at help defense? It’s a joke. Kanter or Evans should have been in the game to provide some defensive help for Favors. Fact is, Corbin had his chance. We need a tough team to win in Utah. We will never have the most talented roster in the league so we have to make up for that with hard work and toughness. This team(especially the starting five) have none of that. That is a direct reflection on the coach and if Sloan was here I doubt he would stand by and watch the vets drag the team down. Talk to Coach Sloan, apologize for the past and tell Ty to move on or move down the bench cuase Coach Sloan is coming back!!!!!!
Interesting concept. Coach Sloan. First of all, there’s probably a reason beyond age and being sick of arguing with today’s diva players (D-Will) that he left. I’m sure some of it had to do with the transition from Larry H to Greg P. Miller as well as KOC. So that Sloan would even WANT to come back to the Jazz is questionable. Second, I personally feel that his time has passed, and that the job offer to Ty has resulted in a crappy drug-out extension of the Sloan era. I think its time for new blood. Its a new Day. Greg Miller, Dennis Linsey, {insert new coach here}, and the Core6 (DMC and Evans incl.)! Id like to see them hire a proven, respected, succesful coach. My vote is Stan Van Gundy. He was able to craft a great offense around the strengths of his players as well as excellent defensive schemes. Lets give our future every advantage we can, not wait for Ty to magically ‘develop’ into a good coach. He’s proven to me, and countless others, that he’s not the right coach going forward.
I think Sloan left the Jazz for a reason and I doubt he would consider coming back here. I think Jazz should look at someone like Avery Johnson who has a great history working with young talent.
2013 draft class is looking pretty weak and I think the Jazz should look at taking a step back this upcoming off season and acquiring picks for 2014 which could be as great a draft class as 2003.
I’ll say this again Jazz should make an attempt at Jarret Jack or even better Monte Ellis.
HoopsWorld mock draft:
#14 Trey Burke PG 20 years old; 6′0″; 180 lbs. Michigan,
Sophomore
#18 Kelly Olynyk C 21 years old; 7′0″; 238 lbs. Gonzaga,
Junior
#44 Erick Green PG/SG 21 years old; 6′3″; 185 lbs. Virginia Tech,
Senior
So, they think the Jazz draft for need, ie PG.
However, every time we get to see the co-point guard (Alex/Gordon) in action, which is rare, they always perform well. It would sure be a better starting combination than sticking Mo, Earl or Jamaal in the starting lineup.
Jazzaholic
Well anything looks better than guys we got now,(Mo,Earl, Jamal) They play like don’t know what they’re doing, they have absolutely no feel for the floor. They throw it immediately to Al who decides to shoot jumpers when his game is so much better in the post. The Jazz need a guy that can lead them on the court. Jazz basketball works when we have a strong floor general ie. Stockton & Williams.
I bet @LK!!
If they dont want to hurt Mos ego, at the very least, move Foye to the bench, move Mo to SG, Burks to PG. At least! That way Mo plays off the ball—thus less hero ball.
Sloan? Time to move on.
The Lil’l Gen’al? He seems to rub on players and get fired.
Stan the Man? I don’t know if his voice would last. I wondered, if he was going to have a stroke, when I watched him.
I’ll bet Dennis has a list, just in case, just like he has for D-League/FAs.
I’m not sure the recycled coaches are the best. How about a young, up and coming assistant, like Thibs was? I’d sure like to see one of the coaches who is a real defensive specialist and the other with a good offensive scheme, like Houston runs. Defend the rim and 3, force the s#!t shots, and just the reverse on offense.
Jazzaholic
In the draft and trades, I hope the Jazz look at shooting range and the ability to penetrate. If they get a big man, can he eventually command the ball deep and the double team.
Really, Alec and Gordon both have shooting range, the ability to penetrate, play defense and rebound. Any clones in the draft?
Enes the Menace, when given the playing time, and used as a first option, sets up low and if they don’t double team, he can score on almost any big man. As teams scout him, that may change, but he keeps adding new moves too. We give a lot of talk to Derrick, but Enes has the better offense right now and one less year of development. It would be fun to watch them start in enough games this season, to see what the Jazz really have.
Jazzaholic
Jazzaholic says:
March 21, 2013 at 5:53 pm
Sloan? Time to move on
Time to move on???? We tried moving on and look what it got us. The Jazz made a mistake when they did not stand FIRMLY by Sloan with DWill and they ended up losing both of them.
Sloan is perfect for our situation, which is why he was so succesful before. Sloan get the most oout of his players which is exactly what a small market team needs. What did Bryon Russell ever do after leaving Utah? How about Shandon Anderson? Sloan knows how to play off of players individual skills. He knows how to coach a team that has to win using the team concept. Most importantly, he is hard nosed, tough, no nonsense coach which is exactly what the weenies that make up our current starting five need.
We can take our chances and wait on Ty. We can bring in someone new and hope that they are capable of winning in our unique situation, or we can try to bring back a proven commidity. I say that little Miller needs to call the old coach and try and convince him that the Jazz need him back.
@KCJones, I agree that Coach Sloan is not the way to go, as much as love and respect him. I’m for drafting Trey Burke and maybe a good SF in the first round and a back-up C in the second. Next year could be very exciting AND frustrating at times, but I AM very optimistic of our future, with or without Ty.
They say Sloan has been attending a lot of home games. Some say he would not take the coach job again out of respect of Corbin. He has pulled his name out of the hat for other coaching vacancys,so I say why not??I think he would be the right choice..
Hell yeah LK Anderson
Just trying to make it spread. Bring back Sloan!!!!!!!!!
Jerry’s the same age I am. Would you really want an old codger for a coach?
They’ve only put the camera on him twice at a home game, as far as I can remember, but I’m old!
Jazzaholic
@Jazzaholic: I would take you and Sloan any day..FO knows he has been at games and probably can’t think of anyone better. Put me on the Sloan bandwaggon..
Jerry Sloan was at a few of the U of U basketball games too. Just because he’s not coaching, doesn’t mean he doesn’t enjoy basketball anymore. And just because he goes to games, doesn’t mean he’s itching to coach again.
I would like some fresh blood in the coaching, one who uses advanced analytics to help with lineups, defense, shooting and offensive schemes.
The old dogs just fly by the seat of their pants.
Jazzaholic
I was big on going after Stan Van Gundy before they offered Ty an extention, but if he’s that good why is he still unemployed? True Jerry is a Hall of fame coach with a winning record but his substitutions were more predictable than Ty’s. I also like the idea of bringing in a defensive minded asst coach from another team. Who is Pops assistant?
I wasn’t a big fan of Stan Van Gundy, but right now the media circus that he brings might be more entertaining than what we have currently. It might also in a strange way benefit the Jazz, it might take some of the pressure off the young players. Stan also worked with Dwight Howard, so could guide Favors in areas where he needs to improve to be that defensive man he can be.
Looking at good coach’s assistants, like Pops, Thibs etc, is probably the best way to find that enthusiastic, innovative, flexible coach, who uses stats as a basis for offensive and defensive schemes.
Stan the Man would be entertaining, that’s for sure.
Just like Kevin hired Dennis, the stat geek assistant to R C and Pops, and before that Morley.
Chicago did the same thing when they hired Doc’s defensive specialist Thibs.
Jazzaholic
Agreed. Jerry Sloan is not the answer.
Ty isn’t coming back if we miss the playoffs
@Jake: That is what the media says. Especially when at the trade deadline they were games ahead. Losing 70% of the games since has not helped at all. Collapsing this bad I can’t see Corbin retained. My guess after the last game of the season the firing will be done and they will take their time to replace him..
Then Ty isn’t coming back, because the Jazz won’t make the playoffs.
Is Dennis going to fire him?
Is Greg going to pay his last year of salary?
It might be better said, that the more the Jazz lose the more likely it is that Ty gets the axe.
I think he could lose the rest of the games and still be back.
Jazzaholic
Corbin will be back. as Dennis already stated taking a step back next season for future gains. Portland has lost a lot of close games, should be better. Minnesota injury plagued all year who knows what they will be like next season, but love and rubio should be a scary duo. basically jazz could very well be in the bottom 3 of the west with sac, and phx. hopefully Corbin can just teach the kids to play solid defense and forget what they’re learning from the vets.