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Would you want Pau for Big Al and Paul?
Posted by: Jazzaholic on December 20th, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.The question is would YOU prefer Pau, instead of Big Al and Paul on the Jazz?
Because of Pau’s knees, contract ($19m x 2 years) and age (32), it would be doubtful if the Jazz would have any interest. The Lakers probably wouldn’t want the extra salary ($15m + $7.2m) despite both contracts expiring, extra luxury tax (WOW!) and they’d have to waive, and pay, one of their other players to make room for the extra player.
Looking at it from the Jazz standpoint, it would relieve the front court roadblock for Kanter and Favors. Pau is a much better passer and commands more double teams, thus they would have better ball movement.
I can’t see this trade ever happening, but…
Your thoughts?
Jazzaholic
Replies: 40
Views: 1195
40 Responses
Two years ago I would have said “yes” in a heartbeat. But, not anymore. I mean think about it…the Lakers are trying to deal Pau for a reason. You could even make a decent case that Marc Gasol is now a more effective player then his brother. If I’m paying a guy $19 MILLION A SEASON he sure as hell better make me an instant title contender. Does Gasol make us an instant title contender?
But, does he make the Jazz better? Is he a better fit than Paul and Al?
It actually cuts the Jazz payroll $3.2m this year.
Pau only has one more $19m season and it’s probably going to cost $25+m to resign Big Al and Paul.
It does remove $19m in flexibility, if the Jazz don’t resign and renounce the rights to Big Al and Paul.
Don’t you think Pau would make the offense more fluid?
Jazzaholic
What about unleashing the Kraken, errr, Kanter and getting more minutes for Favors?
Jazzaholic
Is Pau better then Jefferson? In my opinion…yes.
Is Pau better then Millsap? In my opinion…yes.
Is Pau better then Jefferson AND Millsap together? In my opinion…no.
I don’t think this trade makes us a better team. Not to mention, I don’t want to do anything that might ever help the Lakers.
This year the luxury tax is 1:1, but next year, for repeat offenders, like the HATED Lakers, it can be as high as 3.25:1. Pau would still be on their payroll in 2014, whereas, Paul and Big Al would be off.
A significant, overall savings for them.
Jazzaholic
How in the world could Dwight Howard and Al Jefferson ever co-exist on the same roster, let alone on the floor together?
I could see why the Lakers would have interest in Millsap though.
That’s another reason why the HATED Lakers probably won’t be interested, but Pau and D-12 don’t work very well together either.
They won’t do anything until Nash comes back and plays a while with Pau anyway.
Actually, the trade works with just Big Al’s salary, for Pau, and saves them $8m this year and $38m-$47m next year, with the luxury tax.
My thought was 3 bigs, not swapping a big and still having 4 bigs and restricted time for Enes and Derrick.
Jazzaholic
Of course, as a sweetener, the Jazz can always throw in Mario Austin, Peter Fehse, Shan Foster and Ante Tomic into any trade
Jazzaholic
And, let’s not forget Toxic Raja.
How much more generosity can the Jazz express?
Jazzaholic
I think that Big Al or Millsap have greater trade value right now, because of their lower salaries, especially Paul, and age/health.
But, if you think about only playing one at a time and pairing Pau up with Kanter or Favors (or both) don’t you think you get more production, not only from the bigs, but the other players too?
Jazzaholic
Another reason the trade never happens, both teams want to trade to the East, so they don’t get bitten in the rear end and have it come back to haunt them.
Jazzaholic
it could make sense to make a multi-team trade with the Jazz taking back Pau Gasol as well as some future picks or young players from the other teams involved … The Lakers wouldn’t have much use for Big Al but they would love Millsap … A third team would take big al, something to play around with on the trade machine…
Taking back Pau Gasol would be ok because his contract expires after next season when Favors and Hayward become restricted free agents. He would fit amazing into the lineup, and his minutes could be limited to keep him from wearing down. Favors and Kanter could each get their 35 minutes and learn alot from Gasol. He may even decide to re-sign for $10 million a year, who knows.
I would rather see a trade for Stoudemire.
I want AK back
From a fan perspective, I definately would. Id do ALMOST any trades to giving favors and enes 35+ minutes a night. Is it just me, or do you almost fall asleep watching Al.
Its almost like the time I drank my first 3 monsters in an hour when favors and kanter are on the floor!!
I really don’t think that Al and Dwight would coexist, but if the Lakers are foolish (desperate?) enough to trade Pau for Big Al, pull the trigger. Make it happen.
I don’t think its worth throwing Millsap in to sweeten the deal. Its true that Pau is better than either of them but not both of them… and I don’t want to make the Lakers any better.
Pau’s knees would be an issue going forward, so even just trading Al for Pau it still gives Favors and the Kanter-saurus Rex more time on the floor.
I really don’t think it’ll happen. Its a nice thought though.
Jazzaholic, off topic but are sign and trades allowed under the new CBA? It was mentioned in a different post and I think nick thought they weren’t allowed anymore.
@jazzaholic or anyone that knows, , off topic but are sign and trades allowed under the new CBA? It was mentioned in a different post and I think It was nick that thought they weren’t allowed anymore??
Pau would be good, but I’d rather see Big Al & Milsap shipped out for any of the following big guys:
Kevin Love
Lamarcus Aldridge
Al Horford
Chris Bosh (long shot for going anywhere this year, but I don’t see the Heat keeping him for the duration of his contract)
Theres this thing in the nba, though, where you are limited to five guys on the court at a time. Bench depth gives you more options, and maybe an advantage over other teams weak benches, but what % of a regular season game is played by bench guys? 25% or so? Way less of a factor in the playoffs too. Having the best player on the court gives you the biggest advantage, followed by positional advantages. My point is, you can’t look at it like Pau replacing Al and Millsap together. We’re not going to have just four guys starting. Look instead at our current C-PF combos compared to what they would be after the trade.
Now:
Al + Millsap
Al + Favors
Kanter + Favors
Favors + Millsap
After trade:
Pau + Favors
Pau + Kanter
Kanter + Favors
I see an upgrade on defense, I see a Post game to replace Al’s, while better passing makes a better fit with Favors and Kanter as the off-ball bigs, and more court time for Faves and Enes. Maybe not as much offensive potency, at least not til more development happens, but that will be accelerated by more playing time AND not accompanied by bad defense like we get with Al and to a lesser degree, Paul. Not to mention we’ll probably have to overpay either Al or Paul to stay and for probably 5 years, instead of Gasol’s two, which coincides perfectly with Haywards and Favors first big extensions.
So all in all, yes I would do that trade.
Sign and trades are allowed with teams under the luxury tax apron, which the HATED Lakers are NOT. Teams under the tax, no problem.
My thought was taking Big Al and Paul off the floor by a trade (Money Ball) and playing Kanter and Favors the amount of time used by one of them and giving Pau the minutes of just one of them. So, it would be replacing 4 big men with 3 and Kanter and Favors using the balance of the time.
Let me rephrase my question. If you split the 96 minutes between Kanter, Favors and Pau, do you get a more effective offense/defense/rebounding/scoring, than you do with Al and Paul getting the most minutes and a few going to Kanter and Favors?
If you went with 26 minutes for Pau, because he’s older and needs more rest, and 35 each for Kanter and Favors (over Al and Paul getting 35 each), don’t you think the ball movement, passing and scoring would be more efficient?
Jazzaholic
Gasol!! Those 19M comes off when it’s time to sign Hayward and Favors. I’m willing to bet Gasol will heal up pretty fast once he is away from Kobe. Gasol is healing while saying, “lakers are worse without me, Kobe u jerk.”
Plus he can talk to his boy Ricky to come play PG for Jazz!!
NO!! I agree two-three years ago yes. Gasol is breaking down and health will be a major issue. Stoudemire has not even put on a shoe this season. And not worth it anymore.
On another front Josh Howard has a torn ACL. Out and waived. Probably his end.. Hopefully Jazz will make a quality trade.
YES! Pau isn’t as good as he used to be, but I can’t think of a big with championship experience that I would rather have Favors and Kantor learning from (other than Duncan), He is a better big than either Millsap or Jefferson, and it would force Corbin to play our young bigs.
No. I do not want a guy who has made his career with the Lakers. I know that sounds short sighted but I would have a VERY difficult time accepting him as a jazzman. Luckily I was out of the state when D-bag Fisher came here so I never had to see him play in a Jazz uniform.
I HATE the Lakers and I hate any Laker player who has been with that team more than a year or two. It only takes a few years to corrupt them in LA.
That’s probably why their official name is “the HATED Lakers”
Someone mentioned they’d rather have STAT, than Pau.
“This past summer, the Knicks offered Stoudemire to nearly every team in the league — “available for free,” as one rival executive put it. But they found no takers because of his diminished production, his health and his contract, which has three years and $65 million remaining (counting this season) and which is uninsured against a career-ending knee injury.”
Those of you whose memory goes back to Stoudemire’s first couple of years in Phoenix, doesn’t Derrick remind you of him at this stage of his career?
Jazzaholic
How much did melo aid in stoudemires declining production?
Stoudemire if he can come back and play is 10 times the player pau is. Gasol might be better offensively compared to jefferson but defense they’re the same. Stoudemire is better then jefferson all around and would improve this team. 65 mil for 3 years is high but IF he can play I would snatch him up in a heart beat. And go after john wall next year. Maybe include orlando and get one of their draft picks since the golden state pick is now looking like a bust.
Defensively with a healthy stoudemire this team could shut down anybody… championship contenders. You have two youngs that need minutes and we don’t make this trade when they would take bell watson and al give us shumpert and stoudemire. No brainer. Free up minutes for favors and kanter and get rid of dead weight
We may have been watching different Stoudmires on defense. As far as I know, you’re about the only one enchanted with his defense.
Now his offense is what got him the big uninsured contract with Jimmy. They needed a star for the disaster of the last 10 years to regain some hope for their fans, but it wasn’t until Melo came in, and especially since STAT has been out, the the pathetic Knicks became a team again.
And, yes $65m, is high, uninsurable and a millstone. Why do you think the Knicks are offering him for nothing…just take over the payments (please!).
STAT never has had the basketball smarts and is still a franchise liability. His lift is gone, but his contract continues. He’s probably a worse black hole than Big Al. He wouldn’t make the ball movement better, quite the opposite. He doesn’t pass the ball, except under duress.
But, other than that…
Jazzaholic
“Waiving Howard creates an open roster spot for a small forward who can defend. The options include signing swingman James Anderson, cut just Thursday by San Antonio, or a veteran sitting at home such as Michael Redd, who has had knee problems of his own; pulling a wing player such as Chris Douglas-Roberts or Coby Karl, who played on the Wolves’ summer league team, from the Development League; or trading for a player such as Raja Bell, who is sitting home in exile from Utah.” Minneapolis Star-Tribune
Take Toxic Raja…PLEASE!
Jazzaholic
“What are 3 possible destination for Amare Stoudemire if he gets traded”
Larry Coon:
“New York, New York and New York. I don’t think there’s any way he gets traded.”
Used to watching Boozer and Jefferson anything is better…
stoudamire is a worse defender than Jefferson or Boozer, maybe the worst defensive big man in the NBA
He played in system that didn’t play defense.
Boozer sits the 4th quarter because he can’t play defense and Jefferson is “not in the game if he goes 0-5 or 0-6″
Remember, if you replace Paul and Al with one player, Pau or ?, Enes and Derrick get more time and development. Their defense is better than anyone of the possible trades available. With increased playing time, their offense will improve. In fact, Enes is an impossible stop without a double or triple team. When he gets better at recognition and passes out to the open 3, the offense should really open up.
Pau would bring height, wingspan, basketball intelligence and a willing passer. Neither Paul nor Al bring that.
Again, the chances of that trade are nil and the salary is exorbitant, but goes off the books next year and the Jazz would still have cap space and expiring contracts/flexibility.
This is only a mental exercise.
Jazzaholic
For both? Not a chance. For one or the other, for sure. Pau is a great player and one of my favorites, but his value, especially now, is not on par with both Milsap and Jefferson.
I agree that one of the two needs to be traded. It’s a shame the Jazz don’t play Kanter and Favors. They have so much potential and could be better than Jefferson or Milsap. But coming off the bench, not getting much playtime, they’re going to get frustrated and leave the Jazz for a better role somewhere else.
No, Pau is on the way down. I can’t see him fitting into this team, even though he really is an excellent Basketball player.
Yes, I’d love to have a _healthy_ AK back, but he is never going to play 82 games a season.
I haven’t read all the comments yet, so I’m not sure whether this has been talked about, but the only way this trade takes place is if the lakers continue to suck, and/or D’Antoni gets fired, or the lakers just want a salary dump for a player of relatively equal talent to Pau.
I say this because neither Al or Millsap fits whatever freakish system the Lakers have going right now, at all. So the lakers wouldn’t just do this trade because it makes them better- because it doesn’t. It would have to be a salary dump or D’Anotoni gets fired due to them sucking and a new coach with a different system replaces him.
Having said that, I would trade Al and Bell for Pau. You don’t have to trade both, although I realize that with Pau’s contract you would most likely have to give up Paul anyway due to not being able to afford him. However, we’ll let that work itself out come the off-season. For now, all the jazz would have to give up is Al and Bell to make it work. Lakers know that Pau with his contract would not be enough to get both Al and Paul (this is assuming they want them, which I doubt they do).
So, for this to work, the trade would have to be something like:
Atlanta gives Josh Smith to the Lakers and they receive Al Jefferson.
Lakers receive Josh Smith and Raja Bell and they give Pau to Utah.
Utah gives Al Jefferson to Atlanta and Raja Bell to the Lakers.