Meet
I think I know the future!
Posted by: Nathan de la Cruz on February 21st, 2013
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.Okay everyone, this is how it’s going to go. Jefferson is going to play defense in 11 of the final 28 games and he is going to choke us out of exactly 3.7 wins that we should have had otherwise. Millsap is going to continue to work hard and he’ll probably have a buzzer beater or two to win a game for us, but other than that he is going to lose every power forward matchup because he is so undersized. Favors is NEVER going to play again for this team!! He is only 21 and he is not ever going to see more than 2 minutes a game for the rest of the season. In exactly 138.3 days Burks and Hayward are going to go to the FO and ask for a trade saying “I’m sorry man, I’m just tired of not being able to play”. The Jazz never going to be able to attract any free agents of any quality. I know this because I have been a Jazz fan for exactly 3 months and I talked to Dennis Lindsey yesterday……he’s the man. I told him that I think we should give up Raja Bell and some cash considerations to the Heat so that they would give us LeBron James and he said he’d get right on that. I mean it seems so easy to make a trade that he told me I could give it a whirl, I told him maybe I’d take him up on that after we get swept out of the playoffs. Of course that is what is going to happen because everyone knows that. The Jazz have no chance of making a 5th or a 6th seed in the western conference, let alone making a cinderella run in the playoffs because I talked to Al and he was like “Yeah man, I don’t even want to go past the first round, that would be hard work”.
I hope all you “smarties” that are criticizing the FO remember that they know more than you do. You are entitled to your own opinion but c’mon, get a little bit smarter. THERE WAS NOTHING THAT WOULD MAKE OUR TEAM BETTER THIS YEAR!! You don’t just make a trade to make a trade. I for one am happy that the Jazz FO actually cares about what type of people they bring in so that we don’t end up with a bunch of Carmelo Anthony’s and Josh Smith type of players. So since all of you are so smart and you all have really great trade ideas that we could just magically do without regard for the other team, why don’t you take a deep breath and just be a fan for once. Just enjoy the ride. I understand that we may not be able to compete for a championship anytime soon but to say that the FO doesn’t care or doesn’t want to win a championship just because they couldn’t bring in a LeBron James or Kevin Durant type of player just shows how brainwashed you are. How do you make that leap? Oh, they didn’t make a Blockbuster trade this time so they must not care about winning a championship?? Ya lost me there. Anyway, I for one am going to enjoy the rest of the Jazz season, even though it hasn’t been perfect so far. Even though next year is a big unknown right now and they probably won’t go very far in the playoffs this year, in the words of the great Herm Edwards “That’s why you play the game……..you play to win the game!”.
Replies: 45
Views: 763
45 Responses
Amen
Beautifully said. It’s good to criticize, but let’s have a little optimism. Enjoy the ride and welcome as a new fan.
drone
@Robert, I was being facetious when I said that I have been a fan for only 3 months. I have been a fan since I was in diapers which was ~28 years ago, so I’m no “Johnny come lately”. I guess that’s why it’s so frustrating for those of us that have been Jazz fans for so long to hear all these complainers. The true Jazz is truly an above average intelligent basketball fan in that we understand that you can’t just pluck a special “franchise” type player out of thin air. We all miss the days of John, Karl and Jerry but that’s what made them so special is that we are still longing for them 10 or 15 years later. I also don’t believe that you need a Kevin Durant to win a championship but its just going to be a lot harder and that’s something that these whiners need understand.
Whiner, take that!
Glad the trade deadline has passed so we can just focus on supporting the team and winning now!
BUT you can’t honestly say that we would not be better NOW had we moved Sap or Al for a PG (Teague, Bledsoe, Jennings or Patty Mills) and some expiring contracts.
Okay, how do you know we could have RT? Would that have put us over the top for a championship?
Not a bad post. I think you are right about a few things. I think for even the slightly above average fan it is difficult to understand how many factors are actually involved in making trades, singing free agents, drafting and scouting players ect. However there are a few common sense type of moves that jazz management have failed to make over the years that I believe drives some of the fans crazy. If you put it in to perspective folks its just entertainment and you do have a choice to watch or not to watch. Jazz management and ownership are gonna make choices that we as fans disagree with but also we have zero control over. So these are things we as fans will have to tolerate. We just need to do are job and support the team the best way we know how.
In the profession I serve in we go through a lot of business related training and part of that training is customer relations. One of the first things they tell you is that it is not necessarily a bad thing to hear some complaining from customers because that means they care. It’s when the complaining stops and there is no communication that’s when you should worry.
I truly feel that every fan on this site cares about the team or they wouldn’t take the time to be on here. People just have different ways of caring and that is one thing you just have to respect.
I would agree with Robert. Just be glad you are not a 76rs fan. Look what the great Bynum has done for them this year.
Why does everyone say hayward doesnt play? He gets a majority of monutes and plays critical minutes
Are you being sarcastic????
I like how you are critizing people for thinking they have omniscient powers of knowledge while you yourself are using those same powers: so how exactly do you know who or how long people on this site have been Jazz fans??!! Lol! Do you have personal conversations with all UJ360 members like you had with Lindsay and Al?
I also like how you create a strawman and then attack him. Lol! Hyperbole is fine but you do realize no one was asking for out of this world trades. They were being reported and most people based them on that. Maynor WAS available, — how do I know cuz he got traded! You are telling me Jazz couldnt swing that?! “But I guess we will never know”
Trade deadline last year, everyone said there are no good trades that’s why Jazz didnt make a move just wait til offseason; then in offseason everyone said, “there were no good trades and it’s hard to get into the first round just wait til trade deadline next year; then trade deadline this year everyone is saying, there were no trades available cuz if cba just wait til offseason, and so on and so forth”………so my question is, when exactly are we gonna turn it over to the young guys??? Seriously, we didnt last year cuz CJ, Watson, Howard, Bell, Al and Millsap were all getting minutes. Two of those players arent even in the league, Hahaha! So when, if jobbers like CJ, Watson, Bell, and Howard had more of a Jazz future, what makes you think Jazz will finally turn it over to young playets this offseason??
All I wanted was to dump Al, Watson, and Bell—-thats it!! I would have taken 5th round picks for Bel and Watson. Thats it! Is that asking to much?? Al is leaving at years end for nothing (or they are resigning him) why not pick up FUTURE assests and use his 35 minutes per game to develop players, you assume are going to be the future next year when Al and Sap walk?? No one was asking for LBJ or Melo we were asking for, oh say, the damn guys we drafted and are/ have been under contract with Jazz!! Oh my, what insanity!!! Play the two #3 picks we have (that together average about the same minutes as Al–a player assumed to be walking), I know asking for the stars and the moon! I know, who ever heard of trading away players so that you can play your own high draft picks–its unheard of, quite frankly.
So unless Al minutes drop to about 20 minutes and Saps to about 20, and Kanter and Favors get a significant boost in PT, you cant convince me that the Jazz are looking into the future, after all, Al and Sap are walking right??
And of all the playoff teams, on how many teams would Watson be playing 25+ minutes?! Seriously?! But damn us fans for being crazy enough to want to upgrade from Watson—freaking Watson, we are talking about!!! Bells stats are N/A, but damn us fans for wanting to dump him for monopoly money, to free up a spot! The nerve of us Jazz to want to get rid of player that has played ZERO seconds this whole season and a player that would be a 3rd string PG on all NBA playoff teams.
So ya, keep building that straw that is completely draw from your imagination, and tell us we are crazy demanding Jazz fans cuz we are asking to dump to useless players and and overrated player that plays the position that two #3 picks can play on rookie comttacts that even you admit are our future …..but ya, we are the nonsensical fans….right? Lmao!
Dude Omar I’m just saying I feel bad for guys like you because you can’t just enjoy the team the way it is. Be patient and give the FO the benefit of the doubt. They are not perfect but KOC has been pretty darn good at keeping our team competitive and in a position to build slowly without overspending for average players. If Favors and Kanter were as good as you think(ala franchise caliber players) then they would have blown everybody away by now. They are good players and they definitely have high ceilings but they are not the franchise altering type of players like Kevin Durant that just blow you away with how good they are. By the way that is really the only thing that separates OKC from us so they are really not that much better than us.
I agree with Omar. It is true that one trade wont instantly make us contenders. It takes A LOT more than that to put us over the top. So why not get started? Let’s start making some of those decisions so that we can get headed in that direction.
Here’s the thing, if we were losing because Kanter and Favors were making mistakes, that’s one thing. Those losses are more or less an investment in the future and therefore I would understand that. But when we are only a mediocre team while playing VETERANS more minutes than our promising rookies there is a problem.
So either I want to be a title contender because our vets are THAT good, or I want to invest in the future by giving our young rookies the burn that they need to learn and grow. Instead, we AREN’T contenders and our rookies are getting anemic amounts of playing time.
I LOVE the Jazz and I will cheer for them no matter what. I also will defend them to the bitter end if I am discussing them with fans of another team. But on this site when I am among friends and fellow Jazz fans, I will be open about the things that I feel they should be doing. And of course, what I feel they should be doing could be dead wrong. And that’s okay, that’s why I am not getting paid to make the decisions. But I will still share my thoughts and opinions with all of you.
Also Nathan, Karl Malone and John Stockton didn’t blow anyone away either until they got some playing time. They were pretty average until Dantley and Green left.
@ Omar, first of all I always enjoy your posts and learn from your insights. I think the point being made is that, as fans, we underestimate the FO, when in actuality they are quite competent. We just seem a little too hostile and maybe at the cost of enjoying our team as much as we can.
@Omar, you don’t see the big picture. No one has been totally disruptive as for sending him off, if you look at the team as a whole unit, I think it’s pretty solid. There’s no doubt that we need to move forward (better PG and more minutes for Favors and Kanter by sending either Al of Millsap off), but the truth is that we are better positioned than last year.
I don’t think we get home court advantage, but a vs. Clippers, Nuggets or Memphis is possible and I think it could make for a tight matchup.
Now if you look at it from a phsycological perspective, unless, and I repeat unless a trade REALLY makes us better, both because the newcomer is better at his position and because he fits this system mentally, I don’t see any reason for making a trade just for the fact of making a trade. Chemistry is good, and it only got better because now the players can put all their focus on the upcoming games. Trade didn’t happen, and really there didn’t seem to be much out there to choose from. The funny thing is how people blame the FO for not being proactive and take risks, as if maybe not getting anything for Millsap or Al at the end of the season wasn’t risky enough. I think it’s been played smart. The real deal is coming during the off-season, with all the cap space we’ve got. Then is when I’ll start pointing fingers out if we don’t use it wisely.
I just wanted to add that I love these discussions, we may all disagree many times with eachother but it just shows how passionate Jazz fans are about this team. There’s something about this team that no other team has. Coming from Spain myself, it’s always surprised me how many Jazz fans there are overseas, I mean why? Why a team based in Salt Lake city and not in LA, or NY… I still haven’t figured it out. Spain, France, Scotland (Steve), now Turkey for obvious reasons, it’s crazy…!
Anyway, peace, let’s be the Junkyard Dogs these playoffs *sneaky laugh
Jamezz I enjoyed your posts. I do however wonder what you think the teams’ plan is with all of this money? Or at least, what do you HOPE we do with it?
I know a lot of analysts are saying how great it is that we have this money, but I am struggling to decide who is available that is worth it. I would love to hear your thoughts. My fear is that we end up over paying someone who isn’t worth the money that we have to pay. We’ve certainly been known to do that and then fans turn on those players like a ravenous dog on a steak. (Kirilenko)
I’ve been critical because really…I have no idea what the front office is doing. At least everything I see them doing is not in line with what I, as a fan of the Utah Jazz, want: A Championship.
Al and Paul are what they are. Add some more average to slightly above average vets in Mo, Marvin, Foye and we know what we have: a bottom playoff team. And we’re barely that thanks to a very strong bench in Favors, Hayward, Kanter, Burks and Carrol. Where would our veteran starters be with crappier bench players?? Our weakest spot is still by far the backup PG with Tinsley and Watson.
So we traded D-Will, our only superstar-level talent since Malone and Stockton, for basically Favors, Kanter and Burks. And what are we doing with them? Playing them minimal minutes. Why? I HAVE NO IDEA WHY! This is the conundrum of my fandom under Greg Miller and Tyrone Corbin so far! So we can be an 8th seed? For the Glory of Mediocre veterans to feel warm and fuzzy? For the Ego of the FO that is tied to ‘we make the playoffs consistently’? I can only assume it’s for the extra money the playoff games bring in. Seriously. Because 6th, 7th, 8th seed down to about 10th is the WORST position you can be in in this league. Your chances of a 1, 2 or 3 pick are basically zilch. All you’re going to add is more rotation players, IF that. Your players aren’t good enough to trade for anything better than what they are. The young guys ceiling is unknown, and to ME at least, it seems like they possess more athletecism and raw talent than the veterans. So to little fan ME, it seems we should be developing that talent with playing time on the court, NOT sitting behind veterans. Losing would only grant us more chances to land the superstar that we will inevitably need if we are ever going to hope to win a title. THAT is my problem with the Jazz under the current regime. In a nutshell, they seem more concerned with ‘making the playoffs’ than with ‘winning a championship’.
Hear me out. Say we’d traded away Millsap and Jefferson LAST trade deadline for some draft picks. Kanter and Favors get more development, but we probably don’t make the playoffs. Which is FINE! Why?! Because there were franchise-changing players in a stacked draft! Anthony Davis! Damian Lillard! Drummond! Thomas Robinson! Harrison Barnes! Would you take a stronger future team or a sweep at the hands of the Spurs and a similar future team? Jazz FO chose the sweep.
Jazz are so conservative, my fear is we’re going to get stuck in the swirling doldrums of mediocrity (6th-10th seed). It’s ok to take a chance in today’s NBA because of the soft pillowy cushion that is the lottery. Even if you don’t use the picks, those picks have trade value. The way the Jazz are doing things, we’re not on a path to be able to get a superstar. We’re going to have to hope that Favors, Kanter, Hayward or Burks is going to become one, and I’m not sure that they are. But HEY, let’s find out! And if they’re not, we’ll get draft chances to get one!
It disgusts me when fans are so disgraceful that they’re willing to turn a blind eye to front office mistakes with their team. Ronnie Brewer, a fan favorite, was traded for OKC’s second-round pick, somewhere around 55-60. Raja Bell is worth more than that, and Brewer is an upgrade to Bell any day. So why wouldn’t we add a defensive asset to the roster? Eric Maynor, a budding young PG that we drafted, went for a low pick and rights to a foreign player that will never take the court. We have young players whose ceilings are Superstar status, yet we’re playing limited veterans over them, giving them virtually no playing time. So no, I can’t be happy, as a fan, with the Jazz front office. I’m not upset that we couldn’t move Al, who would want him? But the fact of the matter is that there were two smaller moves that would have improved us that we let someone else capitalize on. Mediocrity isn’t what I pay for.
For sure, Jazz fans are the best: these discussions wouldn’t be so intense if we didn’t give a care about the Jazz, unlike fakers fans that jump back and forth between the Clips?! lol! Texas fans that one year they are Spurs fans, the next Mavs, and now Harden/Houston fans. Jazz fans are Jazz fans. PERIOD!
In that way Nathan, I agree with you. Jazz are not far off from OKC, and that’s the reason I am so frustrated! Jazz have the talent to be a top 3 team in the West, but Watson?! Tinsley (I really like him, its just not 2003)?! and Al (we already have their replacements in Kanter and Favors)?! Remember Burks was getting DNPed when Watson was getting 25 minutes; then Watson got hurt, then Mo got hurt, then Watson came back, but now JunkYard Dog is getting DNPed?! and when Mo comes back…does that mean Burks gets DNPed again?! Thats the issue that bothers me. Watson and Tinsley should never get minutes over Burks or DC! That’s just sorry. So now it all falls on Corbin—and I have little faith in him, so that’s why Im totally depressed right now.
I agree with what Kevin said: Id have the patients of a saint if I knew we were developing young talent, our own young talent. Id rather drive 10 MPH in a straight line than 50 MPH in a circle—and that’s what I feel the Jazz are doing, and will just continue to sign one year players until they decide, okay now 4 years later its time to turn the team over to the C4 when they are on expiring contracts.
I appreciate that Robert V. I am just so damn tired of not winning a championship. It feels like groundhogs day, and now that we have the C4 I felt like, ya now its our time, but instead I am watching Al get 38 minutes and Tinsley and Watson get 40+ minutes. I just don’t see that as progress.
And I know everybody dismisses the idea of following the OKC model, cuz some say OKC got lucky drafting Durrant, which they did, but lets put that a side and look the Pacers model:
They have progressively gotten better, under a young head coach, and now lead the league in REBOUNDS and POINTS ALLOWED. And people said, “can they win without a star”—well, look at how George has emerged as an All Star in his 3rd year! averaging 37.7 minutes per game (20 first year and 29.7 second year)! That should be Favors, that should be Hayward this year, and Kanter and Burks next year. That’s what is frustrating me. Pacers only have 3 players with 5+ years experience—West, Green, McGuire (has only played in 2 games) (and Granger who has been injured). And they are a legit threat to Heat, despite having a coach with only 161 games coached (Corbin 149).
Id take our C4 versus Pacers best young 4, but they get playing time, and we get to develop Al and Watson?! come on now. If you have talent, you can win with a young team.
@KCJones, I rather look at it from a long-term perspective, a trade involving Paul or Al will happen this off-season, there’s no way they’ll want to keep all 4 bigs. So if there is a chance of getting something better this off-season I understand how they preferred not to rush it. Seasons are long and it becomes frustrating waiting for things to happen sometimes but I think that there’s a lot to look forward to this off-season.
@Kevin, yes, that’s a great point is how we avoid overpaying a free agent. No one has pointed this out, but in Dennis Lindsey’s interview during the GSW game he said that he’s no problem in asking Greg Miller to ‘take it to the next level’ if needed. Now what I think will happen is there will be a big trade involving Al or Millsap and a few smaller tweaks.
Our biggest need is obviously a point guard. First of all, either Tinsley or Watson will have to go, I don’t mind keeping one of them the next year (as a 3rd option). Mo is key here, I’m curious to see how he looks when he comes back. Mo and top 15 draft pick (Trey Burke or better) would be ideal if Mo’s looking good and we can pull out that draft option. However Mo shouldn’t be our 1st option whenever Favors steps up as a starter, and he will. I think the FO is aware of this too.
So here’s a good list of 2013 NBA Free Agents by position the FO is probably going through in case a high draft pick doesn’t turn out to be:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents/
It’s hard to say who I’d like to go for because you have to fit the new PG into whatever backcourt you have. The game play with a Millsap-Favors backcourt would be much different from a Jefferson-Favors backcourt.
Help me out, you see any young PG’s in that list that could explode here and reach the same level as Hayward and Favors, the guys who we should build around? I would still make Trey Burke my priority. I don’t know, might be like when I see a shirt I like so much that I don’t even try it on, just grab it and go. I’m just sold on that young kid.
Trey Burke highlights this year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IJQ-rWgqRg
3:25 – That’s a sick cross-over
I’ve been impressed by what the Pacers have done this season too, however I personally don’t think there is that much between the Jazz and the Pacers. The playing styles are very different but the teams are very similar in the level that they are capable of. The Pacers do have the advantage in playing the East. If the Jazz played in the East they would possibly have more wins, and certainly the same number as the Pacers. That is something we have to remember the Jazz play in a very strong Western Conference. San Antonio are just streets ahead of everyone when it comes to winning. OKC have Durant, and Westbrook. Clippers have Paul and Griffin. Memphis aren’t anything special but they were ahead of the curve when compared to this young Jazz team. Utah should probably be at a similar pace to Denver who lost their star player at the same time as the Jazz lost Dwill, however they do have a more experienced coach and they possibly got better players out of that deal, and subsequently from trading on since that day. Golden State is the one team that shouldn’t be ahead of the Jazz at this period of time, but they had that easy schedule at the beginning of the year. The fact is despite Corbin, who I don’t rate the Jazz are about where they should be at this time considering we lost our one franchise player. I don’t expect this team is going to be a championship contender for a couple of years yet. It took time for OKC to get there with Durant and Westbrook, and Favors and Hayward can’t do what they do. We need to get that player that can and its going to take time. No one is going to give us that player on a plate. Every GM is looking for that player in the same way as the Jazz are now.
The Jazz have one advantage right now, many teams are struggling to figure out how the new CBA is going to affect their teams. The Jazz are ready for that. They have no contracts that are going that any in anyway poisonous beyond this summer. The Jazz might just be able to say we’ll take this player off you hands for this one, and we’ll take that pick top three, top four, top five pick for doing so.
Honestly, one of Al or Paul should have been traded LAST trade deadline. We’ve wasted a year and a half of development time to be a bottom tier playoff team, when we could have had more developed young guys and additional draft picks (our small market team’s only real chance at a superstar).
By the time they move one of Al or Paul, we’ll still have underdeveloped bigs, still have no additional help for them in the form of high draft picks. That’s the issue. Yes, I’d trade an 8th seed and a sweep for Harrison Barnes on our team and young players with better progression because of development. Why? My goal is not to be a .500+ team this season. It’s to see the Jazz hoist a championship trophy someday.
@ KC, Do you just assume that the Miller’s and the FO don’t want to win a championship, or is there some kind of inside knowledge you got? I think that’s where the vocal minority of fans that scream about the team constantly frustrate me and most other Jazz fans. It really comes down to 2 choices……..either you blow it up now and suck until at least the end of next year(there is no rock solid guarantee that they wouldn’t suck for 5 more years) or you have a little faith that the FO knows what they are doing and they are going to continue to build the program, just like in college ball, and wait for the right superstar to come along. I don’t believe we should give up on the team just yet, I like the guys we have and I think that they can do more than some of you all think.
Nathan
You do have a legit point. Everyone here honestly does. But I am curious….would you rather have us be mediocre or a little below mediocrity so that we can develop the talent that we traded Deron Williams for. Or would you rather have us be consistently a 6-8 seed for another decade?
I honestly think those are our options at the moment. I don’t think it’s wise to ever just wait and wait and wait for a Kevin Durant to fall into your lap. You have to take the initiative to go and get what you want, because no one is just going to hand it to you. I hope to all H that this Front Office has a plan in mind, but at the same time I honestly don’t think they do. Not because I have any inside info because we all know that I don’t. But I have a bad habit of going off of history with this team. Kevin O’Connor talked about his plan to bring us back into relevance shortly after Stock and Malone left. That was ten years ago. Patience is an amazing and important thing. 10 years is a long time, and I feel we’re justified if we start to demand a little bit of success. As much as I love the Jazz, I also love to win. As an intelligent, passionate, and dedicated fan I am not okay with extended periods of underwhelming seasons.
I see your point in the importance of enjoying what we have. But when do we expect more?
^
…this offseason Kevin, I mean go back and study the dramatic turn of events there’s been in this team. Sloan and D-Will leave, then you get a short season, and we’re just over the 1st full season coach Ty is ever gonna have. And you already expect for us to be contenders? Be real, lets hope for the best run we can have this season, and this off-season is when the team should get down n’ dirty and we can start pointing fingers if we don’t see what’s ahead of us.
So you don’t think 149 NBA games, a training camp, and two offseasons is enough for a coach to start making a significant impact?
I could see it if we were the Charlotte Bobcats or Washington Wizards where no coach will really make much of an impact. But Jazz fans who STILL apologize for this team because of Sloan leaving are R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S!!!
There are two types of Jazz fans I have learned on this site. One group who never cares how good we are. They don’t care if we win or lose. And they will apologize for everyone, thinking that makes them a good fan.
Then there’s the group who has gotten to the end of their rope of patience, and they are now demanding success. This group has had enough with waiting, and they will no longer allow KOC to spoon feed them his bull crap.
I feel like I am in the second group. I want this team to win. I am a loyal fan, and I am going no where. But I WILL be critical when we don’t show that we have a desire to improve or win. I am not going to spend the rest of my life blaming every loss on Jerry Sloan leaving. This is a completely different roster from 2 years ago. No more excuses. I guarantee the Chicago Bulls didn’t sit there in the 90’s feeling sorry for themselves. Neither did the Lakers or Celtics in the 70’s-80’s. If we’d spend the energy looking for improvements that we spend on looking for excuses, we’d be pretty effing good.
Also, actually read what we’ve been saying instead of being overdramatic. NO ONE said we should be contenders. We just want to see actual progress. BIG difference.
@Kevin, I understand your points also to an extent……..But my question is: What proof do you have that if we just sucked really bad and lost all our games because we traded away all our veterans and played all our young guys 40 minutes a game that we would somehow be elite in 1 or 2 seasons? I mean I think that Favors and Kanter and Burks, etc. are really good and I think they COULD be great players but that is no guarantee that they will. I mean look how long the Kings have sucked now and how many top 5/top 10 picks have they had in the last 7 to 10 years. They are a perfect example of what bad owners and a bad culture can do to a team. When I say they(Favors and Kanter) haven’t blown anyone away yet, they haven’t “arrived” if you will. I agree that you have to take the initiative and be aggressive and all that but what would you like them to do? The Lakers were mediocre for pretty much the whole 90″s and the Bulls were treading water for about 10 years after Jordan left……Why? Because they didn’t have Derrick Rose yet, that’s why. And those you can’t just trade for or teach your current players how to play like that. If the Jazz hadn’t found Stockton and Malone to build around then we would have been “mediocre” for the last 34 years. The point is that the Miller’s and the Jazz have always done a great job at keeping the team competitive while trying to survive in a small/ignored market, which is much more difficult than you think. All I’m trying to say is that the FO didn’t say, “oh we don’t want a championship anytime soon”. I think that there message was much more to the effect of, “be patient we feel like we will have better options this summer”.
Nathan, how many times has the bench fought our way back into games, to have the starters lose it for us again? Case proven.
Duh, what”s your point? I don”t know you tell me how many times. How many times has Big Al and the rest of the seasoned vets carried us to a win?
This has to go down, IMHO, as one of the best discussions I’ve read on this site. @Sir Omar, you’re posts are always good, but your last one, was the most elequent and I pretty well agree. @Jamezz, Spain eh? Your perspective about how the Jazz have fans through out the world is most interesting and appreciated. I’m waiting for the ‘OFF SEASON” and meanwhile enjoying this one.
I thought I was reading a good posting until I realized you were being sarcastic. Let me ask you something. What if you are wrong? What if the jazz FO and the Millers really are running this as a buisness only? What if the true desire to be champions past away with Larry?
It would be really easy to look at the financial line and say as long as the money being spent is less than the money being earned. As long as people keep tuning in and seeing my auto dealership commercials. As long as I am still recognized as a good guy in the community I don’t really care which round of the playoffs we get knocked out of. When that changes maybe Sacramento will want to buy them and get a team back.
To answer your question, do I really think the jazz FO doesn’t care? Or doesn’t want to win a championship? I am not as convinced as you are that they do. AND I will say this, they don’t seem to want it as badly as I do.
@Kalab
I just don’t want to be that cinicle, plain and simple.
It had to be run like a business because it is a business. We are not a large market in the NBA so we can’t just go on a shopping spree and just pay any player we want if we think they are going to put us over the top. But to make the leap that the organization doesn’t want a championship somehow……? I think all of those fans who think that are just being dramatic, I also don’t believe that you have been fans for very long because we did go to the western conference finals a few years ago. Gail Miller is still alive and she’s really the one in charge and I don’t know how many times Greg Miller has to tell the fans that he really does want to win for people to believe him.
And I agree with what Robert just said too.
I don’t have proof we’ll be elite in one or two seasons. But you don’t have proof we’ll lose all our games either. My point, is that if Favors was good enough to trade Dwill for, and if Kanter was worth the #3 pick let’s see it.
You keep telling us to have faith in the decisions of the front office. I think it is you showing the lack of faith. The difference, is you are wanting to trust in future decisions that haven’t happened, while we want to trust in decisions they made at the draft and the trades of a couple years back. If they have this grand plan, let’s see it get put into motion. Why do they not believe in the guys they believed in just a few months ago?
Greg Miller wants the Jazz to just be financially viable. He doesn’t do anything that would lose money. That’s fine, because it’s his money and I want the team to be financially secure. But let’s see it how it is and stop calling it differently.
I appreciate that Robert Vawdrey, the Jazz already have the talent on roster to be moving towards a championship in next couple of years. Others teams blow up their team to MAYBE get draft picks that are quality; Jazz already have picks that are high quality, so we don’t even have to blow up the team, just trade (too late) like one or two players….Al and Watson, and Bell. Solution: cut or bench.
“You keep telling us to have faith in the decisions of the front office. I think it is you showing the lack of faith. The difference, is you are wanting to trust in future decisions that haven’t happened, while we want to trust in decisions they made at the draft and the trades of a couple years back. If they have this grand plan, let’s see it get put into motion. Why do they not believe in the guys they believed in just a few months ago?”
@Kevin, that might be one of the best counter arguments I have seen on this topic.
Well one thing IS for certain and that is that history WILL catch up to us eventually and we’ll be able to tell if their present path is the correct one.
I believe everyone is coming closer to the realization why Sloan quit. Wasn’t because of D-Will, it was because of the direction and desire he got from the NEW FO at that time. Remember he did just sign an extension prior to resigning.
@noneyadb: You are incorrect. There was no new FO at that time. It had not changed for a long time. Just before this season was it changed drastically.And when Sloan signed his extension reporter asked him how long he would be coaching the Jazz. Not the exact words but he said “I don’t knowI could be leaving tomorrow.
Sorry to tell ya LK, but Larry not in office is a NEW FO.