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What A Letdown
Posted by: Steven on February 22nd, 2013
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.Oh where to begin?
Frustration, much?
It was pretty much a frustrating time for fans of teams throughout the NBA. Very few deals got done.
I have to admit that I wanted Al to move on to pastures new, partly just so that I could see how an upgraded role for Favors and Kanter might affect their play. I wanted Al moved on so that I could see Hayward back amongst the starting five. I wanted to see what sort of player Marvin could be in an offense that wasn’t so conducive to using the Big’s their time on the ball. The way certain players have stepped up in the absence of Mo and Gordon I could see progress in the team and a real chance that a team without the likes of Al, Tinsley and Watson could get at least the 8th seed that the team got last year with those same players.
I was surprised at the Bledsoe for Millsap trade proposal. I was initially saddened at the thought of losing Paul whose play and skillset I think compliments Favors and Kanter’s play and positions more than Al. However as I read about the trade initially it seemed like a decent deal. I really don’t think the Jazz needed either Butler or Jordan but to make the deal work it was worth the gamble that was Bledsoe. But lets get this straight Bledsoe is a gamble. The boy has a lot of hype, but its hype from limited minutes. I am yet to be convinced that Bledsoe is anything more than a SG/PG combo, but with him being an upgrade over Tinsley and Watson it was addressing a real need. When the trade started to hit problems with luxury tax issues for both teams it was clear the Clippers upped the ante and decided they wanted more than what was originally proposed. I can’t blame the Clippers, until Chris Paul is signed on to a nice fat extension why give up Eric for a player of Paul Millsap’s skillset when they already have Griffin. If the Clippers decided they wanted Paul Millsap and Burks as rumour’ suggested then that is a deal that the Jazz FO were right to walk away from.
I admitedly have had my doubts about Burks transition into the NBA. I love the kid, his athleticism and ability to make plays for himself have been a welcome addition to the team. I was one fan who wanted to see him get more minutes but I was also one who thought he struggled with his jump shot, and for his ability to get the line he seemed to get fouled too often without finishing his shot. However lately his play has elevated to a new level one that has shown that he can play the point, at least on a backup level. Playing the point also elevated his play at his more natural SG role too. He has also proven that he is able to work on his jump shot, even hitting the 3 on a regular basis which the scouts from his college days said he would struggle with his whole career. I’m sorry but to give up Burks, along with Paul was too much for the FO to agree with. For all Bledsoe’s hype this year, he is very much a work in progress, much like Burks, and in the few games without Chris Paul in the team and Bledsoe running the show the Clippers struggled to win.
Unfortunately for now the Jazz have been spoiled as a team with PG’s and the available PG’s out there are not going to magically reproduce the same effect on this Jazz team that the likes of Stockton or Dwill were able to do with previous Jazz teams. Let’s get this straight, Maynor hasn’t lived up to expectations. I for one don’t care that Portland apparently nabbed him for next to nothing. The boy just hasn’t made a career for himself since he left Jazzland.
The deals throughout the NBA during this trade deadline were quite frankly not that great.
I will say this though the Jazz did make one mistake this year. If one player could have helped this team to move onto a new level Houston got that man, when they took advantage of OKC needed to shred some contract at the beginning of the season. The Jazz could possibly have made that deal, but not by including Millsap or Jefferson. It would probably have been a deal that included at least one of the core four, if not two. Yes we would have improved our offense with Harden in the team, but if we lost both Favors and Hayward in the process the rebuild of the team would have taken a step back too.
As much as we like to think Millsap and Jefferson and all the other players on the roster aren’t the future of this team, they are too good to be moved on for crap deals but at the same time by themselves aren’t often going to be the piece that gets us a player that we really aspire to acquire.
Right now the Jazz have 3 draft picks this coming summer. Hopefully the team can use some of the players that we have, and don’t need, to upgrade at least one of those picks into a higher slot in the lottery. Whereas this team has reached its ceiling with Jefferson in the team, Jefferson could help a team such as Cleveland, Charlotte or Orlando to progress from where they currently are in the league. A sign and trade of Jefferson, or Millsap, or Marvin, and a first round draft pick to one of those teams may well help the team acquire a pick in the top four allowing the team to acquire a Marcus Smart or some other player the FO feels the team need to take a step forward in the right direction.
The Jazz could have made deals for the sake of moving Al, Tinsley and Watson on, getting something for them in the progress, but unless those deals actually improved us as a team it would just be a case of taking on contracts and the team would be taking a step backwards. There are no franchise type players that are available that the Jazz need. A deal could probably be made for Pau Gasol, and if he was offered a starting role away from the Lakers he would probably accept it but his $19m salary is ridiculously high considering his injuries and play of late. Teams such Houston and Dallas will be fighting over Dwight Howard if he decides to get out of LA, but with Favors here we don’t need Howard. Chris Paul would be ideal but with his freedom to go anywhere he ain’t coming here unless Lindsey possesses some giant powers of persuasion that we have yet to see. Those are probably the only franchise changing players available at this time and the Jazz with don’t need them or don’t have a chance of acquiring them.
The team needs an upgrade at PG, but we don’t need a Jennings type who hurts his team as much he helps. The PG’s out there available, are pretty much blah. Not much better than Mo, available to play yes. Which would be nice, but nonetheless still not that great.The Jazz need to move Tinsley and Watson on from backup at the very least. Burks has shown he is able to play the second backup when called upon. Without a willingness of Chris Paul, Rondo, or Irving to come here even if the teams were willing to make a trade, we might have to go down the route of the draft to groom our next good PG.
The Jazz also need to get down to at least 3 big’s to allow the likes of Favors and Kanter to grow into the roles that are theirs but do the Jazz really need to make a deal for Gortat just now to play as back up when both Favors and Kanter have had such limited minutes against first unit bigs? I think the chances are that Jefferson will be the one to move on to allow this team to put together a new structured offense in the summer and Millsap will be signed on for something similar to the $8M a season he turned down last summer. With the new CBA teams will be reluctant to offer him much more than $8m, at the very most he will get an offer for $10m a season, which the Jazz could match for a season or two, and then trade the rest of his contract at a later period.
Its been a frustrating time having to deal with no trades this deadline, but on the upside the players will not have to learn a new offense for the remainder of this season. The players have shown an ability in recent weeks to step up, and hopefully having a period of certainty they can continue to do so and the likes of Hayward, Burks, Favors and Kanter can continue to show a level of consistency in their play that they each have shown of late. Hopefully Corbin can also show the willingness to grow as a coach by experimenting with the starting five lineup at times. If Favors, Kanter and Hayward are truly untradeable they must be the future and if that is the case they need to learn to play against starting caliber players. Kanter has started one game in two season. Favors a few more, but all of which I think Jefferson was unavailable. Hayward has started a lot more than those two, but struggles to be as effective offensively when under an offense that is so Al focused. A couple of changes in the starting lineup between now and the end of the season could make their readiness for next season all that more greater.
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30 Responses
If CP3 kills Tinsley and Watson like Thomas did, and Blake and DJ are lob-city all over Al and Millsap to start the game, we are gonna see right quick how little or much balls Corbin has in a hurry. If he lets them get dominated, and doesn’t pull them from the game early, that will tell you all you need to know about Corbin as a head coach, cuz that “he has to play Al 35+ minutes to showcase him for trade” is dead.
R.I.P.
“Corbin has to play Al cuz of trade deadline”
October 2012- February 2013
Did anyone read that report that Pop chewed out Howard! in an ALL-STAR game! cuz he wasn’t listening to Pop! Corbin dosn’t even chew out Al in a legit regular season game when he is getting torched or isn’t boxing out. I’m glad Jazz are playing Clippers in LA first game out of deadline so we can see who is gonna fight, who is gonna man-up, where the talent is, and if Corbin has a set and start acting like a head coach and not like a jr. league coach that is a father and plays his own kids no matter what.
Yeah I read that the other day too. I would be pissed off too if I were a coach drawing up a play for a specific player and that very same player was larking around not paying attention.
As for Corbin. I think he knows how to draw up plays etc, when needed, but I am yet to be convinced that he can coach players. The Raja Bell situation should never have happened last season. No bit part player should have the power to hijack a team of $3m+ dollars and be off playing golf in Florida.
Pop is able to get Manu to come on as a sixth man. The OKC coaching staff were able to get Harden to play the same role there, and yet we as fans are convinced that Al and Millsap are unwilling to play the sixth man role here. Any coach with good communication can make their squad perform the roles that they need them too, either through chewing them out or gentle encouragement and ego massaging when needed, or just plain putting the team wins ahead of individual minutes and stats. However in the case of Corbin he gives us the impression at least that he caters to the need of who makes their voice heard the loudest. Thats not a good impression to create. Not for now and not for the future.
Under the right circumstances I would have no problems with having players playing for the Jazz if they had a reputation of being difficult but talented and also had a reputation of being winners, IF the coach could control those players. Some players need berating. Others need ego massaging but I have no confidence in Corbin being able to control a Rondo type character, nevermind someone as crazy as Cousins when he can’t even work out Raja, or find a way to make the most of Favors and Kanter without sacrificing time on the court for Jefferson or Millsap. If Corbin doesn’t step up in the same way as some of the squad has done in recent weeks then my patience for him is going to be exhausted.
Go compare Al’s numbers to other starting Centers in the league this year.
18th in FG% among centers (meaning if any of the 17 centers ahead of him took 15 shots per game Al they would average more point per than Al. If they all did Al would be the 18 highest scoring center, in the bottom have of centers offensively).
10th in rebounds
Tied for 14-17 in blocks
Al is about average mediocre, and thats just among centers. He is about the 14 best center overall. Not exactly a franchise player.
Omar man you are just using stats here for that argument. Name 13 better centers than Al? I would even say top 5.
In no order: Dwight, Brook Lopez, Chandler, Big Al, Cousins, Roy Hibbert, Noah, Pekovich, Marc Gasol, and Greg Monroe are the top 10 right now.
How many of those guys can make the shots Al can? I would say only Gasol, Lopez, and Cousins hold a stick to him offensively. And I would take Jefferson’s defense over Lopez’s defense and Cousins attitude any day. Noah, Chandler, and Dwight are all superior defensively, but only Dwight (on occasion) is a go-to scorer.
Playing next to Millsap, his defensive lapses are magnified because Millsap himself isn’t a great defender. I think if we would have saw Millsap traded, that we would enjoy Al a lot more. Jefferson/Favors frontcourt is far better than Favors/Millsap. Kanter/Jefferson doesn’t look good at first, but realize that Kanter/Millsap has been one of the worst 2 man tandems the Jazz have had this year.
IMO we need to carry on with Al over Millsap if we want to have success in the playoffs. When the game slows down and defense is emphasized in the playoffs, successful teams need a go-to scorer. Al is that guy for us.
“Go compare Al’s numbers to other starting Centers in the league this year.” JRN
“Omar man you are just using stats here for that argument.” Andy
Yes.
Are we talking about style or putting the ball in the hoop? And I am looking that the whole picture:Al offense, defense, and bang for your buck. Al is getting CP3 money, so yes if I had the power to rank the centers based on offense, defense, and the amount of money I would have to pay to get it, yes Al is about 14th best center. And thats not even taking into account future potential centers cuz then I add Drummon and Sanders (rookie contracts) that list.
I already think at least 2 centers are better than Al right now—Favors and Kanter, and the Jazz have them under contract, rookie contracts.
Al is a top 10 offensive Center in my opinion. I know points per possession his is lower, but PPG he is pretty solid.
The biggest problem, is that it isn’t good enough to justify zero development of the guys we traded DERON WILLIAMS for. If you trade D-Will, that’s great. But for what? Occupied bench seats? Let’s see what these guys can do because we obviously felt they were worth an all star point guard. I trust KOC that Favors and Kanter were worth D-Will. But now it’s like he doesn’t believe it anymore. Jefferson is a great guy and a good player. But it just isn’t getting us anywhere.
Haha Kanter better than Al right now? You are either high or an idiot. WHich is it? He has a better defensive rebound % than Tyson freaking Chandler. If you look at PER he is the 2nd Best starting C in the league this year. His assist ratio is way higher than his turnover ratio (lowest out of any starter in any postition) and he is putting the rock in the hole better than most. To Quote bill russell “its about buckets” and Al gets more buckets than any center but Brook Lopez right now. Also He is getting to the foul line better this year. He is improving. The only C outplaying him in 2012-13 is brook lopez who is on a max contract. Al is not on max but still playing better than any gasol, howard, horford, hibbert and others making a lot more than him.
Omar i understand what your saying, but its a double edged sword…
You are right, there are 17 guys ahead of Al in shooting% but most of the guys ahead of Al, cant or dont create there own shot like Al can, and also aren’t the 1st option on the team like Al is. I mean the Top 10 alone theres Tyson Chandler, Tiago Splitter, Deandre Jordan, Robin Lopez, Javale McGee, JJ Hickson and Omer Asik. Would you say any of those guys are as talented offensively as Al? No way. Each of those guys live off lobs and putbacks. (Not to mention Chris Bosh is also top 10 because he has the luxury of playing with Lebron and Wade and takes nothing but wide open shots.)
Here’s where its a double edged sword… if you asked each of those guys to create their own shot as often as Al does, i would bet their TOs would go up and FG% would go down. I mean how many times has Javale Mcgee been on espn’s NOT TOP 10 haha
Stats are important, but you can’t base everything off of the numbers themselves. There are many factors behind the numbers you need to factor in before making a claim that all 17 players shooting better than Al would score more if given the same amount of shots like their talent level, role, how they score, etc.
But i think we all can agree, Al needs to take some better shots sometimes.
Hahaha JRN, Kanter IS better than Al: Kanter is twice as good defensively and only slightly less good than Al is offensively, and he gets paid about 11M less doing so, so yeah he is better than Al. If I look at PER, Al is tied for 4th….with McGee. “He has a better defensive rebound % than Tyson freaking Chandler,” of course Al does!! Chandler is a shotblocker NOT a ballwatcher!!
How about offensive rebound rate, you know when the defensive team has guys rebounding (as oppose to an offense when most teams do not crash the boards a lot in favor of getting back on defense)……Al is tied…..for 47th, YES FORTY-SEVEN among CENTERS—not 47th among players—47th among centers, LMAO!! Oh, and that Kanter guy….he ranks 4th, yes that’s right FOURTH, only 43 positions higher than Al, LOL!!! It’s all about buckets—with Al its all about shoot attempts, he gets a low number he doesn’t score. And having the 4th best offensive rebounding rate, equals more “buckets” as opposed to being 47th…among centers.
@Steve, as far as efficiency goes, Al does rank 18th. That’s just a fact. That is not to say that all 17 have a better offensive game, it just means they do more with less shots, that being efficient.
All the talk I have heard for 2 years is, “how will the Jazz ever score without Al?” I say, “easily.” Look at what Chandler does with 6 shots, he gets 11 points. That’s 6 points less than Al with 9 LESS shots?! Come on. Kanter and Favors will do that, and more considering they have a way better offensive game than Chandler.
Basically,
Al’s 17 points on 15 shots are not worth 15M!
Al’s 17 points are not worth Hayward coming off the bench!
Al’s 17 points are not worth Kanter getting 12 minutes per game (worse than Morrison got in his 3rd year when he was labeled a bust and trade)
Al’s 17 points are not worth Favors only getting 22 minutes per game
Al’s 17 points are not worth his defensive deficiencies
Al’s 17 points are not worth getting nothing in trade value
Al’s 17 points are not worth the future of the Jazz
The Jazz future is couched on 17 points per game on 15 shots….this is unbelievable….
We really don’t think the Jazz can make up 17 points spreading 15 shots among Jazz players that shoot better?! And Al’s D is pretty sorry on top of that. The funny part is that Al’s numbers look almost identical to Boozer’s! haha, but Boozer’s has never been hyped as the be all end all of offensive scoring like Al has.
Omar…. And they’re more efficient because of what or why?
Is it because they’re the 3rd, 4th, 5th option that are dependent on others creating for them?
Honestly i dont even know why i’m arguing this fact because i want Al gone myself, but solely because of his laziness and attitude. I understand his offensively abilities are pretty good, i know he’s not the most efficient, but i also think that has somewhat to do with corbins offense and the fact its the same play over and over.
First I said 2nd among starting C’s. Javale Mcgee is not a starter. If you watch the jazz offense its pretty cut and dry as to why Al doesnt have great offensive rebound numbers. We always get him the ball on the elbow or 5 feet off of the block. Admittedly he can improve but its Kind of tough to get a Rebound from there. Here is an interesting fact guess how many players that average 20+ pts a game shoot less than Al?? Only 1. Tony parker shoots 0.2 shots less per game. Al is right there with everybody on that stat. For everyone that averages more than Al, Only Griffin, OJ Mayo, and Lopez avg a full shot less per game. So that argument is pretty much dead. Also Al is in the Top half of that group(17.7 pts or more) as far as FG%. Which is good considering taht he takes more jumpers that a majority of big men in the league. For the minutes, a millsap trade would have solved that problem and not jeopardized a playoff run in my opinion. So why is that being blamed only on Al? Also, Al is in Elite company in Value Added and Estimated Wins Added. Ranking above Kyrie Irving, Timmy, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Steph Curry. And out of all of those players above him and mentioned behind him, who has the lowest usage rate?… Al Jefferson. So he is putting up monster stats in some categories with less possessions than his peers.
So yes Al gets buckets along with the other top players in the league. Nobody is expecting us to win a championship with Al as the go to guy. But he is the best player on a transitional team right now whose goal is to get to the playoffs. Is he performing to that expectation?… yes.
And for the record… Al is one of the most efficient C’s in the league, look it up. The E in PER stands for efficiency- Al is Second among starting C’s. And he is 3rd in Efficiency rating and first in Efficiency per 48 mins. (I am not counting Verajao who would be #1 in all because he has played only 20 games this year).
You guys are arguing two sides of the same coin. Lets just evaluate him honestly. Al is a volume shooter who is slightly above average on his offensive efficiency, mostly due to not turning the ball over. His true value lies in crunch time, where he shoots about 50%. He also has a very low free throw rate, although he has a good free throw percentage. He’s also not a good defender on penetrating guards, seems to struggle if he gets pushed around a lot, and against length that doesn’t fall for his pump fake. I will say that I HAVE seen him improve in a couple areas this year. He has a better midpost game and I’ve seen him take it to the hole from there, drawing a few more fouls than usual, as well as hitting that jumper pretty well. He is passing bettrr, his assists are record high for his career. Still, sometimes his rebounding effort is poor, not boxing out. Active big guys sometimes get a ton of rebounds against him. The thing I have with him is probably more Corbin than him. The offense is TOO centered around him, built for him, and theres just not a lot of play off of what he does that fits well with the rest of the team’s strengths. He uses a LOT of shot clock and a lot of times what we get on a play as a result is a late shot clock three from Tinsley or Watson, one of the worst endings to a possessions possible. Do thsts how Isee him. Anyone disahree with anyyhing there? Now ask yourself, is that thst really our franchisr player?
Typing on a phone is bad for your spelling lol.
no doubt Omar, everyone else is right, Al is most definitely a top 5 center … Al’s numbers are almost identical to Tim Duncans, except Duncan blocks a lot more shots… Al scores and rebounds at a slightly higher rate, their FG and eff. numbers are identical …oh, and Al turns the ball over less and averages twice as many double doubles and steals. …I’m looking at player rater stats from espn, not just averages … Al is number 4 overall in the NBA, Tim Duncan is 5, Durant, Lebron and Harden are 1,2, and 3… PER can be misleading, any statistic can be misleading … except wins, and the Jazz are doing that with Al being the number one option … he isn’t perfect, but he is better than anyone else on the team right now, and he is also getting better, his defense has come a long way since the start of the season.
@Jazzdependency: Holy sh*t did you just compare Al Jefferson to Tim Duncan? Go home dude.
Tyrone Corbin and the Jazz front office legitimately think that Earl Watson, Marvin Williams and Jamaal Tinsley are better players right now than Gordon Hayward, Derrick Favors, Enes Kanter, and Alec Burks.
These are the people running this franchise.
@Steven, I ask myself, “if Al didn’t dominate the ball, how effective and thereby how much value does Al have?” And mind you, he gets paid 15M. Seriously, if Al didn’t dominate the ball on offense what else would he do? The only way Al is effective is if he takes a lot of shots and dominates the ball usually in iso heavy Al sets. I don’t think Corbin has choice actually. That is Al’s game, he is one dimensional. Where it is Corbin’s fault, is by playing him 20+ minutes.
“We always get him the ball on the elbow or 5 feet off of the block” JRN
That’s his spot! Nobody forces Al to that spot. So basically what you are saying is that Al doesn’t have good rebounding numbers cuz he shoots a lot of shots outside the paint??? WE AGREE! And he doesn’t defend the paint either, so we have a center that scores jumpers outside the paint and is not a rim protecter or paint protector? That’s what I have been saying!
“Here is an interesting fact guess how many players that average 20+ pts a game shoot less than Al?? Only 1. Tony parker shoots 0.2 shots less per game” JRN
So you are telling me perimeter players, that play away from the basket, are shooting about the same or better % than our Center…..Ya Al’s 48% might seem high for a Wing/Guard player (Durrant is shooting 51%, side note), but for a Center, that is freaking mediocre!!! Here is an interesting fact: in that list you mentioned, on 4 players out of 22 are front court players, and only one is a Center (Lopez 51%). Shooting near 50% for a wing/guard is phenomenal! For a Center to shoot below 50% is not good.
“Also Al is in the Top half of that group(17.7 pts or more) as far as FG%. Which is good considering taht he takes more jumpers that a majority of big men in the league.”
See above; and i do not want my center relying on 17 foot jumpers outside the paint! That’s my point!
“Also, Al is in Elite company in Value Added and Estimated Wins Added. Ranking above Kyrie Irving, Timmy, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Steph Curry” JRN
“VA: Value Added – the estimated number of POINTS a player adds to a team’s season total above what a ‘replacement player’ (for instance, the 12th man on the roster) would produce” per ESPN (“points” my emphasis)
Timmy might be the 2rd scoring option on that team (hence why Parker is 5). This statistics has to do with point totals and not FG%. Look at the list, top players play on teams that total a lot of points.
“Estimated Wins Added – Value Added divided by 30, giving the estimated number of wins a player adds to a team’s season total above what a ‘replacement player’ would produce.” per ESPN
Again this has to do with point totals in terms of the over all team point total. Al this says is Al is the leading scoring on a winning team. Which I am not arguing. What I am arguing is that he is the leading scorer only because he dominates the ball (taking a lot shots) and the Jazz having a winning record is due in large part to the dominance of the bench—C4!
@ Jazzdependency, I don’t see Al as a top five center considering he doesn’t play half the court—the defensive end. And he gets paid 15M. Per dollar, Al is not a good player. So no I can’t rate Al as a top 5 center when defense is half the game. Id say Chandler is the best defensive center, and he scores 11 points per game (on 6 shots). Al might be one of the worst defensive centers, and only scores 17 points. That’s a problem. If Al is the be all end all of Offensive centers, then how is it that superior Defenders are putting up just about the same number of points as Al on Offense:
Howard: 16 points
Hickson: 13 points
EVEN Robin Lopez 11 points
Horfort: 16 points
Bosh: 17 points
Vucevic: 12 points
Pekovic: 16 points
Monroe: 16 points
Lets just take Robin Lopez as the extreme: All these guys play better Defense than Al, and yet with Robin Lopez, their is 6 point drop, that it. And no way Robin Lopez plays with more talent than the Jazz! Kanter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robin Lopez.
Al strength is his offense, and even then, their are ways players can put up the same number without dominating the ball. So we sacrifice defense to get numbers less talent offensive center can put up just by actually playing the CENTER position—in the paint. Well Kanter can do it both. He can be a beast in the paint, and if he so choses he can be a stretch 5 hitting threes!!! If Kanter got 34 minutes like Al, he be putting up 15 and 13 AVERAGE! And Hayward and Marvin and Burks and Favors would be putting up monster numbers as well. Kanter is something special, and it goes to waste cause of Al……uugggh.
@omar if only one player shoots less than Al to.get 20+ points a game than that would.mean he is a very efficient player.
If Al Jefferson got as many points as he does now but was as efficient as LeBron James I would be happy. And if he put as much effort as Millsap does, he’d be a solid defender. I guarantee Greg Popovich could get Al Jefferson to do both…the unfortunate thing is that Tyrone Corbin can’t and/or won’t get it done! I’m convinced it is not different players we need, but different coaching. It’s a lot tougher to change a player’s style than it is to change a coach’s. We just need a style that cuts back on our weaknesses meanwhile improves our strengths. For example: I imagine the starting lineups for tonight’s game will look something like this…
LAC: UTA:
Chris Paul Jamaal Tinsley
Chauncey Billups Randy Foye
Caron Butler Marvin Williams
Blake Griffin Paul Millsap
DeAndre Jordan Al Jefferson
That’s how Tyrone Corbin would do it. Problem is Griffin will destroy Millsap on offense, Paul will kick Tinsley’s butt, Al Jefferson doesn’t have the height to be offensively effective against DeAndre Jordan down low, and Marvin Williams won’t give us a spark… Here’s how I would do it:
LAC: UTA:
Chris Paul Alec Burks
Chauncey Billups Gordon Hayward
Caron Butler Demarre Carroll
Blake Griffin Derrick Favors
DeAndre Jordan Al Jefferson
Alec can keep up with Paul and even if he can’t stop him, at least Burks can keep a body on him, unlike Tinsley, and be an offensive threat, unlike Watson. Gordon can defend Billups, Carroll gives us the spark we need to have a good first quarter, and Jefferson will just have to choose his shots carefully and keep Jordan out of the paint. That’s how I would do it. Millsap would be very effective off the bench against LAC’s second unit, Foye can bang away off the bench, and let Enes “The Menace” Kanter do his thing…
The problem with Corbin, and lots of other teams, is they play the same rotation over and over again. But they don’t play the same teams over and over again. They may have success one night, but get slaughtered the next. I think this is a good lineup to play LAC. But it’s not a good lineup against a team like the Lakers. Corbin needs to play the rotation that is fit to particular teams and a lineup that will give us the most success in THAT particular game.
In every comprehensive player evaluative stat Al jefferson is ranked with the league best. Not Just PER, but Player Rating, Value added, adn EWA
I love how you just write off a stat category when it suits your argument. Somebody a lot smarter than you put it there for a reason. If VA and EWA just mean that he is the best player on a winning team than why are Gasol/Randolph way lower than Al. Paul Pierce is way lower than Al, and Kenneth Faried is way lower than Al. Al Horford and Josh Smith are lower too. Same with Steph curry and David Lee. All good winning teams but their best players dont match up in these categories.
Keep up the battle OMAR. What happened to Dallan, he has been a ghost?
frustated???? OMG…
If Jefferson is so good why did Minnesota let him walk? Why did Love blow up after Jefferson left? Players that good don’t just get let go for a TPE.
hahaha, noneyadb!
Players on pace to play 500 or more minutes
PER: Player Efficiency Rating is the overall rating of a player’s per-minute statistical production. The league average is 15.00 every season.
VA: Value Added – the estimated number of points a player adds to a team’s season total above what a ‘replacement player’ (for instance, the 12th man on the roster) would produce. Value Added = ([Minutes * (PER - PRL)] / 67). PRL (Position Replacement Level) = 11.5 for power forwards, 11.0 for point guards, 10.6 for centers, 10.5 for shooting guards and small forwards
EWA: Estimated Wins Added – Value Added divided by 30, giving the estimated number of wins a player adds to a team’s season total above what a ‘replacement player’ would produce.
First off this is from ESPN, NOT MY WORDS OR FORMULA!
“Bear in mind that PER is not the final, once-and-for-all evaluation of a player’s accomplishments during the season. This is especially true for defensive specialists — such as Quinton Ross and Jason Collins — who don’t get many blocks or steals.” Hollinger (He wrote that)
Value Added = ([Minutes * (PER - PRL)] / 67)—Minutes!
“If VA and EWA just mean that he is the best player on a winning team than why are Gasol/Randolph way lower than Al” JRN
You miss quoted me, I said, “Al this says is Al is the leading scoring on a winning team. Which I am not arguing. What I am arguing is that he is the leading scorer only because he dominates the ball (taking a lot shots)” NOT best player I said leading scorer. Its calculus: look at Daniel Orton, he averages 4.3 minutes per game and has only played in 7 games, but has a 20.95 PER (Al has 21.23), cuz he has ZERO turnovers (probably cuz he only plays 4 minutes), but you see how having no turnovers inflates the hell out of PER. I never said Al turns the ball over, I said for a center he shoots poorly, because he plays outside the paint. But Orton has a 4.6 Value Added because it is PER multiplied by MINUTES—hence Al’s Value Added and EWA.
You know, lets just simply things, lets just look at the Jazz roster. Kanter shoots 53% and Al shoots 48%. Rebound Rate: Kanter and Al are exactly the same 16.6. So the real difference is defense, where Kanter is superior to Al. Kanter shoots better (which is what people say is Al’s strength), rebound rate is equal (although Kanter’s offensive rate is fantastic), defense is no contest, and Kanter has 2 more years on rookie contract, whereas Al is in final year 15M. This is an easy decision, imo.
Omar, thats not what I asked… haha
so again, ask yourself why those 17 players shooting better than Al? Other than Monroe, each of them has someone creating for them. If you think Al is limited to simple isolation post ups, and that he wouldnt benefit from a system centered around ball movement, your being ignorant. Everyone would benefit from a system like that, including Al.
The spurs are the model team, they have everything you need for a good offense, someone to create, someone to post up, and spot up shooters. We have all of those pieces too, but why is San Antonio so much more efficient than us? Its because they have a coach and system that demands ball movement, and thus everyone benefits.
I guess Im ignorant cuz eveywhere Al goes the coach runs iso heavy Al sets?! That cant be a coincidence.
Yes Al can make his own shot, noone argues that point. Offensively the Big man has some skills, but it comes at a price of taking seconds off the show clock for those players playing with him. Throughout Al’s career in a Jazz uniform the wing players in the starting lineup have struggled to get any sort of offensive rhythm. First it was Hayward, and it was thought maybe it was because he was young and inexperienced and it could just be growing pains. But then Marvin came in and suffered the same fate.
I like the fact that Al has tried to address some his weaknesses in his game. He is attempting to pass out more often from double teams and as the season has gone on he has put in a little more effort on defense at times. However the way he plays his game demands certain sacrifices from his team. Al needs to build into a rhythm in a game. He ultimately needs minutes on the floor to be effective. Al is an effective 3rd and 4th quarter player, but he needs big minutes in the first and 2nd to find his stroke. He isn’t a player who can just be inserted into the game when needed. You want him to be ready to play for the 3rd and 4th quarter you have to take his 1st and 2nd quarters where he might not be so effective or putting forth so much energy. He also needs the ball in his hands for 4-5-6-7 seconds of the 24 second shot clock. Other players in the lineup need to work with less time and get the shot or pass off quicker.
Am I glad Al was brought to the team after Boozer left? Yes! This Jazz team would have struggled to be relevant without him. Unfortunately for Al and the Jazz team, he became the leading man of the team when Dwill left. No team should be lead by Al if it wants anything to be anything more than a bottom run playoff position contender. Al should be a number 2 or number 3 man. Al was never meant to be that man, but events thrust that upon him. I believe when DWill was traded for Favors and then drafted Kanter with that extra pick in the draft that KOC realized that Al was not the future leading man, or even leading big, of this organization. His position was only ever seen as a temporary stopgap to get points and wins. The fact that Corbin continues to use him when KOC brought in other alternatives, either says much for Jefferson’s limited effectiveness in a lesser role, or much about Corbin’s reliance on him in the offense as it currently designed.