Meet
Who we need.
Posted by: Kelton on April 17th, 2011
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.I’m going to get lots of hate for this. But I know who we need. James Taft Fredette.
Lets face it. The Jazz need a scorer/shooter. And Jimmer would be perfect. I personally hope we do not sign Ronnie Price. His defence is good at times but mostly he results in TO’s or Fouls. Yeah, kills me saying that.
So resign Watson, and draft Jimmer. Jimmer can play mighty mice and run both positions. He is “only 1″ shorter and 8 LBS lighter the Deron Williams”.
Dont bag on his defence. He isn’t the best but he isn’t the worst. He averaged 1.4 steals his senior year. He doesn’t have the best lateral quickness… but did Deron or Watson?
He can space the floor to 40 feet. I mean honestly, he can drain them consistantly* from 35 all day. This would allow more room for Big Al/Favors/Millsap to work inside. Now imagine Memo healthy at the 5, Hayward at the 3, Jimmer at the 2, and Harris at the 1 with Big Al/Favors/Millsap at the 4. We’d have an amazing inside game. We’d take Bynum/Gasol/McGee out of the post. And imagine the inside outside game.
Another way you might knock on Jimmer is his passing. He averaged 6.5 assists in the tournement. And averaged close to 5 in the regular season.
NBA.com knocks on his dribbling… really? He was the best dribbler or at least tied with Kemba and Irving in the NCAA.
Jimmers upper body is huge. If you watch any Jimmer highlights from this year, look at his jersey. Its being stretched cause thats how big it is. Not to mention his calf’s are tree trunks!
No, he wont have an offence based around him. But don’t say that he can’t roll of screens for jumpers. Or shoot it from the elbow. He came off screens all the time in college at the THREE LINE and drained him. He also has a beautiful mid-range game, being able to create his own shot if needed.
Now other then Jimmer I also believe in getting a big guy. Jordan Williams from Maryland. Look him up. He’s a beast.
Replies: 22
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22 Responses
Sorry about my horrible spelling in this post. Just one of those days.
Either Jimmer Fredette or Kyrie Irvings. Kyrie is a bit smaller but he’s way quick and he’s a great shot. I’d rather have Kyrie but If someone else got him I’d have absolutely no problem with Jimmer.
I understand that Jimmer is an exciting player but the jazz need to draft based on needs.
The jazz were 26th in rebounding and allowed way to many points per game. We need rebounders and defensive minded players.
Based on where jimmer is projected I would rather the jazz go for someone like Kawhi Leonard with our second pick.
Three point shots and fast-break dunks are awesome but the boring things like defense and rebounding win games.
“I would rather the jazz go for someone like Kawhi Leonard with our second pick.”
-High Five- -Thumbs Up- -Friendly Wink-
You started off comparing him to Williams. Mistake since he is no Williams. Then you suggest because he is an inch shorter than Deron, he would be fine at the SG position. Well, Deron didnt play the 2. Hayward is doing well there, dont move him..
You want to compare him to guys who are 2 and 3 yrs younger. Well, shouldnt go there either you wont like the comparisons. Knight had Fredettes Sophmore numbbers as a freshman, and he plays defense and a few inches.
I know what you want to do, but Fredette is not our guy. We have no one who can make up for Fredettes lack of defense. The other guys you wish to compare him too, well, take a look at Fredettes sophmore numbers and make that comparison.. The other guys are athletic, play defense, and are younger.. Just my take. Get someone who will help us, not someone who will make it harder for us on defense.
@ Patrick
Okay so lets compare Irving and Knights freshman numbers to Wes Matthews sophmore numbers.
Seniors played 4 years of basketball. They know how the game works. You saw how Blake Griffen did when he is able to have hard core NBA film sessions and getting to know the NBA atmosphere before he actually played a game.
Like I said. He’s not horrible on defense. Irving, Kemba are going to be gone before our pick.
Look at Fredettes senior numbers and number of awards then make that comparison.
@Tony M
*Points two fingers and gives cheesy smile*
I think next years presumed lineup is better.
Harris – Hayward – Millsap – Favors – Big Al
Possible backups:
Earl – Miles – Evans – AK – Fes
Possible Draft Picks:
Knight – Burks – Leonard – Motiejunas – Kanter
Just my take. All things are subject to change.
@Tyler
We dont need another big man we have 7 Elson(pretty much sucks) Evans (Really exciting) Fes (Could be a decent backup C) Memo(If healthy) Millsap (I don’t like him at the 3 he’s better at the 4) Favors (So much potential and can contribute right now too) Big Al (Has taken the team leader role well)
@ Pat
You like to hate a lot dont you?
Good Article Kelton I agree with ya
And dont forget Jimmermainia espesially in Utah!!!!!!
I don’t think lack of big men is the reason we don’t get rebounds. I think Guys just need some mentoring. Between Al, Mlllsap, and Favors we should have more rebounds. Utah is a team with a lot of blocks. If your long enough, can jump high enough, quick enough to block the ball then I think you should be rebounding better. I’m not saying we shouldnt get a big man, but I think the guys need to as Sloan would say, “Get Nasty”.
Drop Fez, hes had enough chances to make something of himself, Drop Elson, You can replace them with younger guys that will put up the same numbers and be young and want to prove they belong there.
We do need a SG and one that could back up the PG as the 3rd choice would be nice. Find someone to take Bell and I’m not impressed with Price. He’s been around how long? Start working on that shot etc… If we took Jimmer I wouldn’t be disapointed. Look how many people boo’d Hayward, hes coming out of his shell and now hes turning into the golden boy, everyone wants to see what he can do next year. You can’t please everyone.
First of all I don’t like it when people say we should draft because we need better rebounding. Jefferson and Millsap are excellent rebounders. Favors shows a lot of promise. Hayward and Evans should show more promise in the rebounding department as they grow. Above all else rebounding is effort based. Anybody that has ever played competitive basketball knows that a lot of it has to do with how bad you want it.
Defense is also largely effort based, that being said while at BYU Jimmer was not all that interested in playing D. He could be a better defender than we realize. What you can’t deny is his offensive skill for a guy his size he has a very complete offensive skill set. Which I think is his most important quality. No I don’t think the offense would be built around him but if we handed him the ball and told him to score, heaven knows other defenses would make him the focus. All it would take is one deep 3 and he becomes the guy you have to stop, which in turn would open up the rest of the team.
Now I am not saying we should get Jimmer. Granted I like the guy but I think Burks or Knight would be the better pick. But I also don’t think that if we got Jimmer that we would be a worse team for it. Jimmer is the type of guy that probably will not improve a whole lot. But his skill sets like his range is something that is not going to go away when he comes to the NBA and we miss having a capable 3 point shooter.
I don’t believe the Utah Jazz are crazy enough to pass on a PG like Brandon Knight, who will likely be available at #6/then draft Jimmer Fredette. Jimmer has absolutely no value at #6/#12 in the first round.
No NBA team can expect to be a consistent winner in the NBA without playing in your face defense. Jimmer is a tweener who doesn’t have the physical tools/foot speed nesessary to play solid NBA defense… prototype PG’s/ SG’s will eat him alive. He is simply put… a defensive liability that we can’t afford. We can compare him to one dimensional players like Morris Almond/Adam Morrison – two guys who are no longer in the NBA.
The 2011 NBA Draft is important to this franchise… we can’t afford to miss. Don’t let emotions founded in the moment override good judgement. We all know Jimmer is a local favorite but that’s not good enough on June 23, 2011. Just my take.
2011 NBA Draft – David Aldridge
PG Rank, Name, School, Team, Class, Height, Weight
1 Kyrie Irving Duke Freshman 6-2 180
2 Kemba Walker Connecticut Junior 6-1 172
3 Brandon Knight Kentucky Freshman 6-3 185
4 Nolan Smith Duke Senior 6-2 185
5 Jimmer Fredette BYU Senior 6-2 195
6 Josh Selby Kansas Freshman 6-2 183
7 Iman Shumpert Georgia Tech Senior 6-5 212
8 Demetri McCamey Illinois Senior 6-3 200
9 Norris Cole Cleveland State Senior 6-2 170
10 Jacob Pullen Kansas State Senior 6-0 200
Not a hater guys, facts are not name calling, its just facts. So lets list a few facts for ya. You have a list of PG’s up above. Lists class and size, so I dont have to. Now lets look at numbers.
Name MIN PTS AST FG% FT% 3P%
Fredette 18.5 7.0 1.7 .407 .854 .336 Freshman yr
Fredette 33.0 16.2 4.1 .480 .847 .382 Sophmore yr
Irving 27.5 17.5 4.3 .529 .901 .462 Freshman yr
Walker 25.2 8.9 2.9 .470 .715 .271 Freshman yr
Walker 35.3 14.6 5.1 .403 .767 .339 Sophmore yr
Knight 35.9 17.3 4.2 .423 .795 .377 Freshman yr
Added Wes Mathews and Morris Almonds as well.
Mathews 31.2 12.6 2.2 .438 .770 .288 Sophmore yr
Almond 32.3 21.9 1.1 .500 .795 .444 Junior yr
You cannot change size. If defense is heart and desire, it says a lot for the people who play it, and again for those who dont. I dont believe you can learn heart.
Now why did I use Freshman and Sophmore numbers when compairing people, well why should 3 yrs extra college count against the Freshmen. Dont you believe in 3 yrs the freshmen if in school would improve as well?
Now, I am not a hater, just stating numbers and some points I see. Just because our view points are not similar should not make me a hater. I think Jimmer and Almond are the two players that are most alike. Where is Morris Almond now? Each could shoot lights out, and Morris had 4 inches on Fredette and did not make it. Why, because he did not play defense and landed on a poor defensive team..
If you want Fredette to succeed, let him go to a defensive team in need of a shooter. If he comes here, he will more than likely end up like Almond. Just my take.
For Tyler I added Mathews numers, not sure why. I agree that Seniors have a better mind for the game, having 3 more yrs experience than Freshmen. But to get a more fair comparison, you should compare freshmen or sophmore numbers, not a 3 yr split in exp. That would be like comparing Kobe’s rookie numbers to Jordans last season numbers. Doesnt compare, but isnt fair either.
Looking above at Knights and Fredetts numbers, they are pretty similar correct? Thats comparing Knights Freshman to Fredetts Sophmore numbers where Fredette has one more yr exp, but the numbers are even. Knight has at least an inch on Fredette, and plays defense. So when you compare that, who do you pick?
We also have more immediate needs than a PG, or undersized SG. So I agree with you that we need perimeter defense and shooting, I just disagree on how we should draft it.
My top 10 if available.
Williams, Barnes, Irving, Kanter, Knight, Vesely, T Jones, Walker, Burks, and Hamilton. Leonard would even come prior to Fredette. Only because Fredett wont work on our team? He is the opposite of Price, at the same playing lvl. Not worth the lottery picks.
@Patrick reasons why your statistical comparisons mean nothing.
Paul Millsap- Coming out of college he was listed as an overweight, undersized power forward. That had no offensive game and was to slow to defend. Now he might be one of the more diverse players on the team and you could argue top 20 in the league.
Monta Ellis- Limited basketball IQ, small frame, no position. No effort on defense
Wesley Matthews- Poor ball handler, average athleticism.
Now I am not saying your wrong or that Jimmer will be better than any of those players. But you have to realize that college stats when it comes down it can be totally useless. If you were to go just by stats then guys like Paul Milsap, Carlos Boozer, Matthews, and others would never make it in the league. Personally I think we would be better off with Knight but I don’t think Jimmer would be a bad pick either.
I agree that Knight is a better choice. Compare him to John Wall their game, bodies, and numbers are a better comparison. Knight is much younger than Jimmer as well.
Drafting Jimmer would be an excellent business decision though. He has a big following and national popularity which would result in more ticket sales.
Business decision? Sorry to dissagree with that. Short term, heck yeah. But when he ends up like Almond, I hope the shirts you sell, help out with the empty seats you have when he leaves and we are not in a play off spot because you wasted your pick. Again, just a thought.
Do statistics always speak Volumes, no.. You want to say stuff about Milsap exceeding expectations, I am all in agreement there. But, he is the exception to the rule, not the rule. He is the sleeper that we all look for. His heart and drive make him who he is, heck if you could have put his heart into Boozer we would have several rings by now.. Put his heart into Fes, Fes might be our starting Center with Al starting PF. Its like prices heart, love the kid, but he will never be a starter, or even a solid back up. The only reason he is in the league is his heart.
You may be correct that statistics mean nothing. But if you have a chance to draft a player who scores 30 points a night, is short for his position, and overall solid with the exception to playing defense, and you have a chance to draft a player who scores 30 points a night, is one inch taller than the first player, is slightly more athletic, younger and plays defense which do you get? Do you want to win, or do you want the guy who went to school next door?
Personally I want to win, so I pick the better player.. I dont look at the one who can score the most each night. I look at the one who can have more points at the end of the game. We made that mistake with Boozer, put up great numbers and allowed the other team to put up better numbers. We lost, if you forgot..
Paul Milsap, read the comments. His biggest knock was his size, not anything else.
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/paul-milsap
There are so many different ways we could do things to strengthen our team. First we need to recognize what makes our team strong. Al, Milsap, Favors, Harrison, Hayward, Evans. Thats a pretty strong core.
Then of course we have Okur and Bell under contract. I believe Bell will be back in better shape, and with a better shot (shooting shot) next season, but if we can get someone solid to fill in behind Hayward lets do it. Last there is CJ. Thats everyone under or who could be under contract. Then there is AK, Price, Fes, Watson who could be gone.
PG If you resign Watson (a must), then your more solid there. Then you must decide, is Price worth a mil, or do you draft another PG to groom as a potential starter?
SG you have Hayward and Bell, and could resign CJ for another yr. I think Bell could be replaced, but is he our biggest concern?
SF Evans may eventually work out, but is no starting SF. Milsap can start, but not effectively all games and it weakens the PF position. AK could be resigned, but use him as back up if so.
PF, we have 3 who I think can start there, AL Millsap and Favors. We are set here unless you get crazy and trade Millsap, but that is last thought crazy stuff we will not entertain today.
Center is Al, with Okur and possibly Fes can back up.
What do we do? We have rights to Tomic, 6th and 12th in the draft this season, and a protected top 12 pick for next season. Any of that could be trade bait, along with Okurs expiring contract and or Bells lowered trade value.
In this yrs draft there are many options available for us. We could trade away Okur for a solid SG. Try to trade up in the draft and take Williams and Kanter. Then resign AK to come off the bench and Watson as a backup PG. That has a lineup of Harris/Watson, Hayward/solid trade, Williams/AK/Evans, Millsap/Favors, AL/Kanter.
Next scenerio is one of my favorites provided the draft stays the same after the balls drop. Trade Tomic, Bell, and next yrs protected to 12 pick to Mini for Flynn and the top pick. Trade the 6th, and this yrs 12th pick to cleveland for the second pick. Draft Williams and Barnes. Or Williams and Kanter. If you get Williams and Barnes you look like Harris/Flynn/Watson, Hayward/CJ, Williams/Barnes, Milsap/Favors, Al/Okur.. If you get Williams and Kanter then you trade Okur for a Good SG and look like this Harris/Flynn/Watson, Hayward/Good SG, Williams/AK, Millsap/Favors, Al/Kanter.
hmmm, we could always just trade away all our picks for solid players, although, who would we get? If stuck in present position, I say get Knight and T Jones/Vesely/Marcus Morris/Burks/Hamilton. That leaves us with a line up like Harris/Knight/Watson, Hayward/Bell-Burks, AK/Jones-Vesely-Morris-Hamilton, Millsap/Favors, Al/Okur. Maybe bring Fes back, maybe bring CJ back..
Of course you could always draft Vesely and Burks which fills in the holes at SF and SG.
Okay, what what ifs do you have? Lets what if this to death… Jimmer fans welcome.. LOL
No one said anything about Jason Williams?
@Patrick… I never “what if”‘d you. Never did that to anyone. I’m clearly saying that Jimmer is a good fit. Barnes isn’t going to the draft. So there are less and less people going to the draft. Jimmer’s stock is rising. There is no knock on Jimmer. Vesely will just amount to be another skinny white kid who wont be able to find his own.
I have to problem with Burks. He’s a good player. Nor do I have a problem with Knight. But you’re “what if”ing your way into a hole.
I am? Kelton, I guess we shall agree to disagree.. Every player I named is rated higher than Fredette. There are many different ways to make our team better, and in my opinion, none involve Fredette.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/top100?year=2011&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fdraft%2fresults%2ftop100%3fyear%3d2011
Fredette will never beat out Harris, but Knight and Walker may eventually. Fredette will never start over Hayward at SG, and because of match up problems and lack of defense has no right to be in a SG position.. The kids I listed in different scenarios actually help us. Fredette would be like Boozer was, yes he will score, but because of him, the other team will score more..
This is not college, he will have to play with the best, not guys he has 3 yrs exp and growth on. Fredettes stock is rising, and in the right fit he could be very good. Look at our team, its not hard to see our lack of defense team wide, it just doesnt work for either party.. There is no Emery here to assist with the defensive end.
Fredetts stock is rising, but he still hasnt broken the top 15 plain, and though I wish he could fit, I just dont see it. Explain why I am wrong. How he fits better than 15 other guys. Until then we are at different ends of the spectrum. Nothing against you, or Fredette, but I want a winning team, not a cuddly one that everyone gets wishy washy on..
I’m going to have to agree with Patrick on this one. In the Jazz system, we need a point guard that can score but also dish it out. I don’t have a lot of faith that Jimmer can dish. He would have to really work on his court vision and his passing skills. Jimmer was the no. 1 option at BYU on offense, he would not be in the Jazz offense. At best, if no one else is around for our second pick, draft Jimmer for an off the bench shooting specialist. But i don’t think he will blossom into the PG that Walker, Irving, or Knight will be. I think Jimmer would fit better in a run and gun system, such as the Knicks. But I guess we will just have to see what happens, none of us are owners of GM’s of the Jazz, haha.