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Al Versus Harris: (Who is to Blame)
Posted by: Omar on September 16th, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.Stats, stats, stats…..
I know it is easy to blame Harris for our defensive woes, but that is just plain false. Yes Mo is an upgrade in terms of defense, but that is only addressing a symptom of the actual root cause of our defensive problems. So lets compare Harris’ DNPs versus Al’s DNPs: notice the dates (can’t say Jazz were streaking or struggling), notice the opponent’s 3pt FG%, notice opponents point totals, notice the opponent’s FT attempts, notice Harris’ numbers when Al is not in the lane.
In Devin Harris’ 3 DNPs from last year…
2/2/12—Utah 101 @ GSW 119 L
Al Jefferson: 32 minutes, 8/17 FG, 3/4 FT, 6 rebounds, 19 points
4 players in double figures; held opponents under 46.9% FG, 33.3% 3pt FG
GSW: 21/25 FT
3/10/12—Utah 97 @ Chicago 111 L
Al Jefferson: 33 minutes, 8/19 FG, 0/0 FT, 8 rebounds, 16 points
5 players in double figures; held opponents under 55.8% FG, 39.9% 3pt FG
Bulls: 18/24 FT
4/4/12—Phoenix 107 @ Utah 105 L
Al Jefferson: 37 minutes, 7/15 FG, 2/2 FT, 7 rebounds, 16 points
4 players in double figures; held opponents under 45.1% FG, 41.9% 3pt FG
Suns: 12/22 FT
In Al’s 5 DNPs from last year….
12/30/11—Philadelphia 99 @ Utah 102 W
Top performer: Favors 20 points, 11 rebounds, 1 block
Enes Kanter: 15 minutes, 2/3, 6 rebounds, 4 points
Devin Harris: 26 minutes, 5/11, 8/9 FT, 3 assist, 19 points
5 players in double figures; held opponents under 48.5% FG, 30.5% 3pt FG
76ers: 21/29 FT
1/25/12—Toronto 111 @ Utah 106 L (2OT; end of regulation score Raptors 90 – Jazz 90)
Top performer: Millsap 31 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assist, 1 steal, 1 block
Enes Kanter: 17 minutes, 2/4 FG, 1/2 FT, 3 rebounds, 5 points
Devin Harris: 36 minutes, 8/12 FG, 7/11 FT, 6 assist, 24 points
5 players in double figures; held opponent under 45% FG, 35.5% 3pt FG
Raptors: 15/19 FT (in 2OT)
1/30/12—Portland 89 @ Utah 93 W
Top performer: Millsap 19 points, 15 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 2 blocks
Enes Kanter: 21 minutes, 1/8 FG, 1/2 FT, 8 rebounds, 3 points
Devin Harris: 23 minutes, 5/7 FG, 3/4 FT, 4 assist, 13 points
5 players in double figures; held opponents under 46.5% FG, 25% 3pt FG
Blazers: 10/13 FT
3/17/12—GSW 92 @ Utah 99 W (1OT; end of regulation score GSW 87 – Jazz 87)
Top performer: Favors 23 points, 17 rebounds, 2 assist, 1 steal, 1 block
Enes Kanter: 20 minutes, 2/7 FG, 13 rebounds, 4 points
Devin Harris: 30 minutes, 5/13 FG, 1/2 FT, 5 assists, 12 points
5 players in double figures; held opponents under 41.5% FG, 24% 3pt FG
GSW: 20/25 (1OT)
3/18/12—Utah 103 W @ Lakers 99
Top performer: Millsap 24 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assist, 5 steals, 2 blocks
Enes Kanter: 23 minutes, 6/7 FG, 5/7 FT, 8 rebounds, 17 points
Devin Harris: 34 minutes, 6/13 FG, 9 assists, 12 points
6 players in double figures; held opponents under 47.5% FG, 20% 3pt FG
Lakers 31/40 FT (@LA against Lakers of course; about 30% of Lakers points came from “charity” stripe—nice try Refs, Jazz still won and Lakers didn’t get 100 points)
In Harris’ 3 DNPs:
All team scored 100+ points in regulation (NO games played in OT). Jazz went 0 and 3. Jazz held opponents to an average of 49.2% FG and 38.3% 3pt FG; held opponents to an average 112 points per game (all points per game in regulation). Opponents shot 23.6 FT per game.
In Al’s 5 DNPs:
No team scored 100+ points in regulation (Jazz played 3OTs). Jazz went 4 and 1 (Jazz lost in 2OT; they had a 3 point lead with 13 seconds remaining, Caldaron hit a 24ft 3 pointer to tie). Jazz held opponents to an average of 45.8% FG and 27% 3pt FG; held opponents to an average 98 points per game (92.8 points per game in regulation). Opponents shot 25.2 FT per game, 1.6 worse than with Al and no Harris; however this number includes 3OTs, and the regular corrupted officiated game in LA versus Lakers (40 FTs!! hahaha, Thanks Stern), and still the number is not far off from the games with Al and no Harris, 1.6 FT to be exact.
OVERVIEW:
Yes it might make most people sleep at night getting rid of the scapegoat Harris and getting Mo, but maybe Harris didn’t fight so hard through screens because Harris knew Al was going to do absolutely nothing to slow-up Harris‘ guy?! I would be frustrated as well.
Harris played fantastic when the lane was open, and by open I mean NO Al. Jazz completely shut down opponent’s 3pt percentage, about 11% better without Al. In all 5 Al DNPs, 5+ players were in double figures. INCLUDING 3OTs, Jazz held opponents to an average of 98 points per game with NO Al, but WITH Al and ZERO OT periods, Jazz held opponents to an average of 112 points per game–that is a 14 point difference with and without Al?!
In Al’s 5 DNPs, the margin of victory was 4.4 points (include two games that went into OT) Jazz won 4 of 5, and lost the 1 game in 2OTs, so can we put that myth to rest that “the Jazz need Al to close,”—we don’t. In fact, has it occurred to most that you can also win games by getting stops??!! It’s inaccurate to claim Jazz need Al to win close games, we didn’t need him in those 5 close games last year, and that was with a roster that included Howard, CJ, Watson, and Bell getting major minutes when active.
I’m pretty optimistic that if Lindsey is in fact a stat guy….Al will be traded by mid-October. Can’t wait!
Replies: 14
Views: 752
14 Responses
No one can say anything? No Al supporters on that?
I’ll tell you whos to blame. Both of them. Harris let everyone old and young alike drive around him.
Al is not someone who makes guards alter their shot like a howard, favors etc…
They are both to blame for terrible defense.
I personally think Harris carries more as your center is there to back you up. Not guard his man and Harris’s, since harris really did nothing.
He let rookies and veterans drive around him all day long.
Harris couldnt play defence so blame goes on him al i dont onow why there isnt any al supporters on this site he is a great center in thos league. We are are very lucky to have him on are team. His defence isnt great but he is top three in scoring for centers in the league. He also got about ten rebounds a game and 1.5blocks a game. Also he did that on a regular basis unlike sap
Just to give everyone a quick heads up in case you aren’t aware. Omar and Dallan really don’t care about your facts. They just wants to argue and fight because they enjoy it. In their world, Al is to blame for natural disasters, personal weight gain, crime rates going up, and them not being able to get a girlfriend. Don’t waste your time with these two.
For defense I put the blame on both players. I feel that when Harris got traded he came here with good intentions but just wasn’t feeling it. Its hard to step into to DWills shoes especially when throughout your career you have been shifted around to accommodate other PG’s deemed better for the long term health of the franchise. However when he came he he initially put in the effort to get things moving for the Jazz however when he didn’t exactly hit the ground running with his usual numbers and Corbin decided to split minutes more evenly between him and Watson his effort seemed to take a noticable drop. At least in my eyes. I liked what Watson was doing with the second unit for a season and a half of turmoil (at least until his injury) but splitting his time with Harris affected Devin’s confidence badly. Corbin needs to take some blame there. Devin needs to man up and take some blame too. His head seemed to go down if he was prevented from getting to the basket. But yes Al does have to take some of the blame too. Not just for his defense. His man to man defense is ok. His team defense sucks. He is too slow to help his PG. Mo for all his toughness will suffer too in that regard, hence a reason I would like Al to play as the sixth man if the Jazz have no intention of offering him a contract at the end of next season. His defense also means his partner in crime (Millsap) suffers too.
But let’s get this straight Al is not a great shooter. He averages around 50%. Great shooters average better than that. He is a good shooter. He is a very good shooter against weak defensive teams, another reason I want him splitting playing time against second units of good teams and against first units of weaker teams. Against strong organized defenses he tends to be an ok shooter. Its Al’s attacking play that really inhibited the play of Harris. Whether its because Al is one of the more reliable shooters on the floor or because of plays set up by Corbin (which I tend to think more along the lines of) too many plays would go to Al early in the attacking move, and once there the ball stopped, and defenses got set. If Al got his points everything was good, if he didn’t the attacking threat of Harris And Hayward and others were nullified. The ball would take too long to come out for those players to play the game that came naturally to them. If Devin had more success on the attacking end of the floor he would have put in more effort on the defensive end. Harris is not Dwill, he’s not a player who can create too much from a standing start, he needs movement. Al is a player that brings the ball to a stop to allow himself time to decide what to do with the ball, unfortunately that brings the ball to a stop for his whole team.
@Kevin I am 6′4 and am 185 pounds. I am married with two children. No one tries to present anything as “facts” they post opinions. We are the only one that ever post “facts” with evidence to back it up. If someone would like to show something other then that go right ahead. I will listen and if it is accurate then that is fine. But everyone comes and says Al is great on offense. Well all the stuff I have looked at show him as mediocre. So show me something legitimate that shows otherwise. You think it is more of Harris fault then Al then show me that with facts!! Not with an opinion. You once again come in and say crap but NEVER back anything up.
@Steven I would agree both players are to blame. I think this post was meant to show that people place all the blame on Harris like in the post before this when he would have done a much better job with a defensive stalwart in the middle. All of our wings would have done better. I agree with your post though
Defense is more dependent on team philosophy, and the team defensive philosophy should come from the coach. And of course, the GM has to get players that will fit into a philosophy that a coach can make work.
So who’s to blame?
Al and Harris for their skill deficiencies (and maybe defensive desire deficiencies), Corbin for his defensive philosophy (try a zone when Al is in and they keep Pick and rolling hm to death), and KOC for putting players lacking in skill or desire on the squad.
My 0.02
Although, I am a proponent of using Al as a 6th-man against backup bigs and trading him for future picks near the trade deadline. We’ll probably take a small step back, but that will enable us to take a giant leap forward, where with Al, we’ll stay right where we’re at.
HAHAHA!! @Kevin! I am starting to think you have a crush on us…..worrying so much about my love life, how cute.
If you play your cards right, I might make you my girlfriend, and then you can hold my pocket when we go on our date, hahaha. If you have to ask you don’t know.
@Trevor, actually Al averages the highest points per game at the center spot (Dwight Howard is disqualified because of games played); however, Al is not efficient for a Center at all (50% for perimeter players is awesome, but for Centers, average); Al (49.2%) is not even top-ten in FG% among Centers (Al is behind Chandler (67%), Howard, Pekovic, Bynum, McGee, Gortat, Monroe, Noah, Hibbert, Duncan). In other words, if any of the top ten FG percentage-wise centers took 17 shots, they would average more points than Al, so Al is not even a top ten scoring center per shot attempts.
Noah, a player we can all agree is not an elite scoring center, scores 10.2 points with 7.7 shots; meaning if Noah and his offensive game took 17 shots, Noah would average 22.3 points per game:
Al: 17.2 shot attempts to get 19.2
Noah: 17 shot attempts to get 22 points. (7.7 shot attempts to get 10.2 points x 2.3)
@Dallan, absolutely right. I am in no way saying that Harris is a great defender, but what I am claiming is that Harris does not make the team worse defensively versus Al’s defense which makes the whole team worse. Because when Al got ZERO minutes the Jazz held teams to 92.3 points per game in regulation, and if you include 3OTs, Jazz held teams to 98 points per game. That cannot be a coincidence, no way. Until proven otherwise.
To recap:
Harris DNPs
Devin Harris 0 minutes and Al 32 minutes: opponents scored 119 points in regulation.
Devin Harris 0 minutes and Al 33 minutes: opponents scored 111 points in regulation.
Devin Harris 0 minutes and Al 37 minutes: opponents scored 107 points in regulation.
Al DNPs
Devin Harris 26 minutes and Al 0 minutes: opponents scored 99 points in regulation.
Devin Harris 36 minutes and Al 0 minutes: opponents scored 90 points in regulation.
Devin Harris 23 minutes and Al 0 minutes: opponents scored 89 points in regulation.
Devin Harris 30 minutes and Al 0 minutes: opponents scored 87 points in regulation.
Devin Harris 34 minutes and Al 0 minutes: opponents scored 99 points in regulation.
How can that be a coincidence?? The games took place against 7 different teams, in 5 separate months. Even if we compared the highest points allowed in Harris’ DNPs and the lowest points allowed in Al’s DNPs, their would still be a significant difference.
Suns vs @Jazz: 107 points allowed
Jazz vs @Lakers: 99 points allowed
That is an 8 point difference when Al gets zero minutes. If we just took the averages of points allowed in regulation, the Jazz with Al and NO Harris allowed 112 points, and without Al and Harris, the Jazz allowed 92 points. THAT IS A 20 point difference!! 20 points!!! Can anyone explain that with statistical evidence???
@Omar – I think that the defensive difference in the games that Al is out is primarily due to Favors getting about 10-12 more minutes a game. Further, the team is much better suited to deal with a game when one of our 4 capable big men are out than they are to deal with when our only serviceable point guard is out. Favors is a much better defender than Al is, but without Devin Harris, we weren’t putting 5 starting calibre NBA players on the floor. The difference between Harris and either Watson or Tinsley is HUGE.
@Jared Watson is a superior defensive player to Harris though
Hey omar!!! Is that from scared straight??? I saw that along time ago!!!
I would love to see Al kill oposing teams bench, but i have a feeling that corbin will start him
HAHAHA!!!! @Bryan ya dude thats it!! You got it, I didnt think anyone would.
@Jared, I think that is a fair assessment. Favors makes everyone better and Al makes everyone worse defensively. So you figure if Favors gets like a 12 minute bump, and Al gets a 12-14 minute drop, Jazz become a way better team. Even with Favors most playoff teams will have the personnel to exploit Al in P&R, like Spurs did.
@Dallan: Can we give you the nickname of “The Blade?” Also to check your sports knowledge who had this nickname in his pro sports life??