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Alec Burks’ Rookie Year VS. Other Rookie Years
Posted by: Omar on November 1st, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.Alec Burks (Rookie year):
15.9 minutes; 42.9% FG; 33.3% 3p%; 2.4 FTA; 2.3 Rebounds; 0.9 Assist; 7.2 points per
Ginobili:
20.7 minutes; 43.8% FG; 34.5% 3p%; 2.5 FTA; 2.4 rebounds; 2.0 assist; 7.6 points per
Westbrook:
32.5 minutes; 39.8% FG%; 27.1 3p%; 5.2 FTA; 4.9 rebounds; 5.3 assist; 15.3 points per
Harden:
22.9 minutes; 40.3 FG%; 37.5 3p%; 3.2 FTA; 3.2 rebounds; 1.8 assist; 9.9 points per
Wade:
34.9 minutes; 46.5 FG%; 30.2 3p%; 5.1 FTA; 4.1 rebounds; 4.5 assist; 16.2 points per
Kobe:
15.5 minutes; 41.7 FG%; 37.5 3p%; 2.3 FTA; 1.9 rebounds; 1.3 assists; 7.6 points per
Quick Side Note:
in the game the Jazz won against @Lakers, Burks’ stat line:
20 minutes; 7/10 FG; 1/1 3pt FG; 2-3 FT; ZERO turnovers; 17 points.
In the 14 games Burks played 20+ minutes……Jazz went 12 WINS and 2 loses. I repeat……12 – 2!!
To All the Haters:
Stop believing everything you read…geez. Use your eyes and look at the damn stats for once, don’t just drink the hater-rade cuz its being served by all the Corbin apologist.
Replies: 24
Views: 584
24 Responses
Burks is a threat! I don’t get why he wasn’t on the floor. I liked the Foye/Burks back court Corbin used in the preseason. The only knock on Burks is that he doesn’t pass the well. But in my opinion that’s fine as long as he’s playing SG.
Thanks for the advice. I do not believe this post I just read.
Also, NO JAZZ FAN HATES BURKS! Stop calling Jazz fans haters. Everyone loves Burks. It’s just the sensible people aren’t going to !@#$% their pants when we win the game just because Burks didn’t play very much. No player is bigger than the TEAM which is why Deron Williams got traded. Ever hear of him? Why do you think the Jazz will fall all over themselves to get Burks into the game when they quickly traded DERON WILLIAMS as soon as he acted up. Keep some perspective man. You know your stuff, you know stats and the Jazz. But keep it all in perspective. I’ll be right there with you when we start losing and Burks isn’t getting minutes, but enjoy life and take a second to actually enjoy the sweet taste of victory. You don’t have to be negative all the time. Look for the positives for half a second.
Omar, I bet there are instances where crappy players had similar stat lines to Burks rookie season as well. I am not apologizing for Ty, but i trust him as a head coach over you any day.
Ty has seen Burks play way more than you have in the offseason and preseason. He has way more information to make an informed decision than you do. Plus Corbin probably sees things regarding the game that you have no clue how to observe. Take a breath, its just one game. Burks will get called on and have huge games later. If he is good enough to play he will play, and if there is someone playing better at his position he will sit on the bench.
Straight line projections are a joke! Half of the shooting guards in the league look similar in rookie production. Getting Rookie production isn’t hard. What is hard and rare is for the rookie to step up the following year. Each additional step forward is increasingly rare. The idea that because Burks and Ginobli have similar rookie production means absolutely nothing.
That said, I like Burks quite a bit, and think he should get all of Tinsley’s minutes. Tinsley shouldn’t see the court again in my opinion.
I think the root of this whole thing, about Corbin in general, and about Burks not playing, is that Ty defaults to the veterans, even if the production is equal between veteran and rookie, and sometimes even when the veteran production is NOT as good as the rookie production. Like insisting on playing Jefferson instead of Favors in the Spurs series, when D-Fave was obviously the better choice against Timothy Duncan and Jefferson was getting pwned. Things like that.
Combined with the fact that pretty much ALL the veterans this year could more than likely be playing on some other team, the worry is we’ll be left with a team of under-developed young guys, that could hold grudges against the coach or the organization (I think D-Will had some of that).
Also, the third point I’d argue in this is that the ceiling of the young guys is unknown, while that of the veterans is pretty much known by now. The young guys COULD be much better players than the veterans you’re playing over them, but you’ll never know unless you play them and give them a chance to show you.
So up by 16 in the fourth quarter, and you play Tinsley, Foye and Mo Williams instead of letting Burks develop and show glimpses of his ceiling. I dont think either choice would’ve changed the outcome of the game, but I think playing Burks helps his confidence and your future.
All in all, it was just one game and this has been blown WAY out of proportion, but those would be my arguments for playing Burks in the fourth more than 2 minutes.
Hahahahahahaha. You’re right, I’m going to believe a guy named Omar who puts up some stats comparing Burks with Kobe, Ginobili, Harden, Westbrook, and Wade in their rookie year (because of course the stats are all the matters, not what teams they were playing for, the fact that most rookies in the lottery have decent stat lines their first year, but only a few continue to increase production, etc.)as the all telling truth. You know who had better numbers their rookie year? Mike Miller.
Man, I had no idea, Omar, we had a kobe bryant on our team. You need to call KOC, Lindsay, and Corbin and strighten them out. Please, however, include me on that call. I need a good laugh to take with me this weekend.
You miss the point. I agree that Burks is a stud, but you and I care about different things. I want to win, you want to watch your man crush. The jazz could win with Burks, but I trust, gasp! Ty Corbin to put the right people in to play. For a coach put in his position the past 2 years, I think he’s doing a pretty good job.
To be clear: I definitely am not a Burks hater. I’m glad the jazz drafted him. But I’m a jazz fan first before I am a Burks fan. Meaning, if we’re winning- I couldn’t care less if he plays.
For all you Burks over Jazz lovers out there, please go to this link and watch the first two youtube vidoes posted.
I think it’s a real possibility I’m not the only fan who thinks this way.
http://weareutahjazz.com/lockedonjazz/
“So up by 16 in the fourth quarter, and you play Tinsley, Foye and Mo Williams instead of letting Burks develop and show glimpses of his ceiling. I dont think either choice would’ve changed the outcome of the game, but I think playing Burks helps his confidence and your future.”
Getting garbage minutes does not develop a player like you think it does. See David Locke (he’s not the know it all, but he does have better insight than you or I). You want to play burks, but not reward Foye for the great game he had by keeping him in? That’s something to at least think about.
Most teams I’ve seen reward veterans after blowing out their opponents by resting them on the bench and playing their young guys lol. Maybe Ty didn’t because it’s game 1 and they don’t really need rest yet.
And I disagree that the start of the 4th quarter up by 16 is garbage time. It isn’t yet, but it does let you put in young guys knowing that they can’t screw things up too bad. The 2 minutes that Burks DID see, was yes, garbage time. The game was decided at that point.
But like I said, we’re discussing this after one game like its been going on all season or something. It was just one game and Burks will see plenty of opportunity.
Also, everyone keeps pointing at ‘I want to win more than I care about Burks playing’. Implying that somehow Burks in would have led to a loss. If that’s what I thought, I would be arguing to NOT put Burks in (like I would if we were talking about a benched CJ instead). I feel pretty confident we would’ve won either way, as I see Burks production as on par with Tinsleys (or more) and almost on par with Foye’s. There was a long stretch there stuck at 92 points with Tinsley at the helm before Foye hit two threes with about 9 minutes left in the fourth. Ugh, I keep getting pulled into this conversation that doesn’t matter lol.
I agree with Jared. Tinsley has been ineffective this year, even for most of the preseason. Give the Foye/Burks lineup a shot in the regular season and see what happens. It was solid in the preseason.
Oh, and BTW, it is possible to support your team AND a certain player on your team at the same time. Having the opinion that Burks got shafted on Wednesday does not make you any less of a Jazz fan. Based on his play in preseason alone he deserved more than 2 minutes of garbage time.
@KCJones:
You’re probably right about the old men gettnig rewarded with time on the bench, lol.
“Also, everyone keeps pointing at ‘I want to win more than I care about Burks playing’. Implying that somehow Burks in would have led to a loss. If that’s what I thought, I would be arguing to NOT put Burks in (like I would if we were talking about a benched CJ instead). I feel pretty confident we would’ve won either way, as I see Burks production as on par with Tinsleys (or more) and almost on par with Foye’s. There was a long stretch there stuck at 92 points with Tinsley at the helm before Foye hit two threes with about 9 minutes left in the fourth. Ugh, I keep getting pulled into this conversation that doesn’t matter lol.”
I completely agree with this. I posted about this on one of the other topics, the Mavericks/Jazz score topic board. I just said that I agree I think the jazz cuold easily still win with burks, but I trust Corbin to put the right guys in as long as we’re winning. I think after what he’s done the past two years for a coach put in his position, he deserves our trust…for now
@A.G. You’re part of the preseason production lovers/believers, and I’m not, so we’re never going to agree.
I never said you couldn’t love the jazz AND a certain player. I just said I don’t care. The jazz won and if they keep winning, I’ll keep not caring about Burks’ minutes.
You never DIRECTLY said that, but you (along with a few others) act like anyone disappointed not to see Burks on the floor means their allegiance lies completely with the player rather than with the team. It is ENTIRELY possible to be ecstatic with the win and concerned with a player’s minutes. Burks was a solid contributor last year in the REGULAR SEASON and PLAYOFFS. So my opinion of him isn’t solely based on preseason. I’m not saying Burks should have played over Foye either. He should have been on the floor WITH Foye. Tinsley did nothing but still got minutes. That’s where my concerns are coming from.
What I think Ben is saying (cause I feel similar) is that it’s not that Burks fans want the Jazz to lose, or even that Burks would lose the game…..it’s that people sound ridiculous when they whine about him not playing when we won the game. I love seeing Burks play, I follow, retweet, and hashtag all of that “@FreeAlecBurks” stuff on Twitter. Yes, Burks should have gone in instead of Tinsley. But man it’s disappointing to get on this site hoping to discuss an awesome Jazz win, and all people want to do is nitpick every tiny little detail that they disagreed with.
I have often been confused at Corbin’s strategy (or lack of) but for crying out loud we won the game. Our team looked great. Let’s enjoy that instead of crying about who put the ball in the hoop.
A.G.
Ok, well, let me be direct this time: I don’t think your allegience to the force has been compromised based on wanting Burks to play last night. I don’t think you are part of the dark side, have a cat named Mr. Bigglesworth, or wear an old-school hockey mask going around killing people.
You are a co-jazz fan who happens to disagree with some of my views and that’s fine. You can like the team and any player you want. I (and when I say I, I mean I) don’t care about burks not getting minutes in game one. That’s all.
Go jazz, baby!!
HAHAHAHA!! what?! Wow, is there a new Hater-rade in Omar flavor?! Wheres my royalty check??
@Ben I am so so so sorry. I didnt mean to hurt your feelings; that was very inconsiderate of me. I swear, mr and Burks are just friends, I promise. Hahaha. Why is Utah Jazz 360 so concerned with my love life??? Geez.
@Kevin, you shouldn’t believe EVERYTHING you read, you should believe some…and by some I mean us because we are right. The point I am making is that Burks played just as well as Kobe, etc; so no one can say Burks should NOT play cuz he hasnt showed potential…he showed as much as Kobe. So I am saying give him the opportunity to fail and not be Kobe. So when his contract is up, we pay the proper price…unlike AK47. Like KC said.
@Mason. Fredric Jameson says always historicize: meaning, remember the 2011-2012 season. That happened. And if I remember correctly, if I historicize, didnt you go and physically protest to get Corbin to play Favors more minutes??? I am just saying.
@Ben if the preseason doesnt mean anything, then I guess practice doesnt either. So I am guessing only regular season and playoffs matter according to you, right? Okay, well technically I have seen Burks in all meaningful games that matter as much as Corbin, KOC. So ya, I made my assessment based on the same games. In last years regular season, when Burks got 20+ minutes, Jazz went 12-2. In last years regular season, Bell (ppl said trade him for a bag of chips) averaged 23 minutes (8+ from Burks); CJ (ppl called him a knucklehead and useless) averaged 23 minutes (8 +from Burks); Josh Howard (ppl called him a blackhole and is still w/o a contract), averaged 24 minutes (9+ from Burks)–and he was inserted into starting line up in playoffs against the Spurs?! Great decision. That all happened in the regular season, or do most of you suffer from amnesia???
Corbin does know than me…he knows more about who not to play i.e. CJ, Bell, and Howard!! Are you kidding me. So what they have more ceiling than Burks, they were a long term investment?? That sounds like hypocrisy if you ask me. Last year every complained, this year after one game against Dirk-less Mavs at home and Corbin gets a pass. Its this revisionist history thats got you contradicting yourselves. Corbin bench CJ and Howard so Burks and Carroll can play, right??! Last game was symptomatic of last years problems, so I’ll KOC creat for dumping the trash and getting good players, so Corbin has less options to screw up.
All I am saying is play Burks with Foye, thats it. But if Corbin is hell bent on play Tinsley or Watson as the backup PG, then he better play Burks as the SG.
With Love,
Omar “ya we should listen to a guy named Omar” (that really made laugh hahaha. FYI: it means elevated and prophet in arabic )
Thank you AG, you are the few that remember Jazz had a season last year.
WOW!!! One game and a win to boot and we’ve at each other’s throat. Burks will get his minutes. A little civility. You all have valid points.
@Robert
You’re missing Omar’s point. Burks’ baskets are worth more than Foye’s.
hypocritical much is most on jazz nation /360 mucho huh.. the key word in there is potential.. number one, thats the word thats still out with favors because quite frankly kanter is looking much better than him and he was gonna be a bust according to many on here. Omar is clearly showing that burks potential comparing to those even though the others are clearly established but they were once rookies. everything about burks says given starters minutes he will average 18-20( atleast 6 from the ft line). Who had the better preseason between burks and foye ( oh which u guys crushed during the preseason.umm. burks did shooting 60% from threes.
Exactly pintz11!!
@Kevin, do you not know how to read?! Wow. If Burks put in more baskets, ya they are worth more points. So tell Kevin (I dont expect you to answer cuz you never answer direct questions), why did Bell, Howard, and CJ average more minutes than Burks?? Cuz they are better?? Or what? Corbin always plays the better players, right? This isnt about Burks vs. Foye, this about Burks possibly being a damn good player. Last year the excuse was “it was a lockout season” even after injuries, Corbin would reinsert those sorry players. So tell why you think Bell, Howard, Cj are better than Burks?
@Ben So when do players “earn” the minutes that these coaches talk about? If not in the pre season when? Cause that is what we kept hearing from everyone from FO,to coach to Locke…