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Adequate talent evaluation
Posted by: Mason Nichols on July 31st, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.Raja Bell and Josh Howard were our starting shooting and guard and small forward. Tyrone Corbin made sure of this.
Bell was only removed from the starting lineup for disagreeing with coach when he should have been benched for his poor shooting and swinging door defense. His removal from the starting lineup was political, not because of production.
Josh Howard was awful all season, go injured, then replaced DeMarre Carrol in the starting lineup for the playoffs. His reinsertion into the starting lineup ruined the chemistry of the starting lineup that got us to the playoffs. Josh played horribly against the Spurs and got dominated by Kawhi Leonard.
Where are these players now? At the bottom of the garbage heap. Thank god KOC took these pieces away from Ty Corbin. Ty was starting players that cannot even get guaranteed contracts. I hope Ty’s talent evaluation and playing rotation gets stronger this year or he is out.
The Jazz front office has to be seeing this and becoming skeptical of Ty Corbin. If he misuses the weapons they give him for one more season I predict Ty will be sent packing.
Replies: 20
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20 Responses
Considering the circumstances that Ty had to deal with when he took over as head coach. Taking over the position from a legend, not having the star of the team to play with, as well as having a crap load of injuries in his first half season to contend with and then dealing with a lockout in his first full season Ty did a reasonable job. However he still has to show that he can play guys on merit. That he can come up with an offense that uses everyone of his squad’s attributes. And that tactically he can out-coach his peers.
Let me make this clear, the success of the Jazz last year was very much despite the efforts of Coach Corbin, not because of them. He did everything in his power to hold us back, putting in an uninspired system, mishandling personnel, failing to connect with players, etc. but our extremely high natural talent level overcame that and propelled us into a playoff spot. We can’t do that every year and need to get a real coach. I’d love to see us bring Quin Snyder back to the states to coach the Jazz (he’s over on CSKA Moscow in Russia for the moment).
@Chris – right on! I sure hope Coach Corbin improves this year. Inserting Josh Howard back in the lineup was stupid. Terrible timing. It was also stupid to re-insert Watson after coming back from injury and Tinsley had done so well. He also gave CJ Miles WAY too much time on the floor, and Burks and Kanter and Evans not enough. I’ve also voiced my disappointment with him in the playoffs. The Spurs were better, thus WE had to adjust to THEM, but he didn’t even TRY (How about a zone D? How about Favors on Duncan? How about not starting Josh Howard? How about a play other than ISO Al? How about a play for a three point shot when we need one? How about the ‘big’ lineup? Ugh!)
There is always Stan Van Gundy out there. He is a great coach. Look at how he helped Howard come in to his own. Maybe he can do that with Favors.
And also Al didnt get as many post up plays as we are led to believe by the exaggerators on this site. Al ranked 65th in iso plays run and 18th in post up plays run. Corbin is not a great coach but that isnt a strong argument. His lineups and rotations are absurd. I also dont like how he let bell and Watson push him around last year.
CJ Miles to the Lakers??????? Kobe gets nuts, God bless him
I have explained this to you before JRN. When they say he is posting up that means his back is to the basket. No matter if he holds the ball for 15 seconds or 2 seconds they classify this a post up. But guess what? When he holds the ball for more then 5 seconds it is an ISO!! It is not a post up.
Why do you think that him holding the ball for 15 seconds with his back to the basket is not an Iso play?
An iso play is where someone has the ball while the rest of the team stands around. There is an argument that Jefferson would pass it if his team started to move but I believe that they moved at the beginning of the year then found out that he does not pass so they gave up.
I think one problem with Corbin is that he’s still trying to be the players friends and make everyone happy. Your job as a coach isn’t to make everyone happy it’s to put players on the floor that are going to win you games.
That’s one thing I miss about Jerry, his presence. Jerry new what he wanted done and no player, veteran or rookie, was going to tell him other wise. If you were a player and you didn’t like was Jerry was doing, tough luck. Because of this he was respected by his players and think also it was why the front office had so much trust in the decisions he made.
Corbin is lacking the mentality of a head coach. I’ve noticed that in every thing he’s sort of lacking “direction”. His substitutions and player rotations were something I never understood. Even in his interviews I feel like he’s saying what the media and everyone wants to here. I wish he would cut the fluff, tell us how it is, pick a direction, quick trying to make everyone happy, and put players on the floor that are going to win you games.
With that being said, I still have all the faith in the world for Coach Corbin. He played under the best and coach under the best, now I just hope a little bit of that rubs off. Some of you are pushing the panic button a little bit to early (for reasons I understand, Bell and Howard). but I think once Corbin figures out how to “be a head coach” he’ll do the job for us.
@Ryker many people did not like Sloan at all. Korver and AK just a few examples. Sloan was to much of a one direction guy and Corbin is to much of a wishy washy guy. There is a happy medium and the best coaches know that.
Corbin needs to make this as simple as possible: if you dont play D you dont play at all.. cough cough Al. The offense will follow. Jazz need to create a culture of defense to where 5 point leads feel like 10, 10 point leads feel like 15. To where teams fall behind and give up. Without Al, and the new upgrades, Jazz would be a top 3 defense.
@ Dallan – I totally agree. Jerry’s hard head was one of his strengths but also at times a weakness specifically with the relationships he had with his players. I’m not asking Corbin to be a hard head but I would like him to have a bit more “direction” if that makes sense. There has to be a happy Medium. I hope in time Corbin can find that.
@ Omar – Amen. . cough cough Al.
I think this year Corbin could do that. I’m not saying that he will but if he is, this is the time because if he can’t the Jazz can find a new coach.
@Mason – I’m worried that if Corbin misuses the talent this year the talent may ask to play elsewhere in the future. Pretty sure Favors isnt going to be happy to watch from the bench for another year. Everyone wants players to be loyal to a team, but the team needs to earn it
It doesnt matter if you count all of his post ups as iso. He still doesnt do it at an alarming rate. I watched some film from synergy and they only counted his iso plays that were started facing the hoop at the elbow.
So for now we will count his post iso’s as regular post ups. He still was only 18th in league in those. That means that more than half of the teams in league ran post ups to a big more often than the Jazz to Al.
I am not arguing that Al doesnt get iso plays in the post because he does. I realized that Dallan and that is why I included the Post Ups. I am just showing that he doesnt get the ball as much as advertised on this site.
An iso play isnt just how long you hold the ball. If Al is holding it in the post and the offense is moving around him and cutting into the paint its not an iso. Especially in the post. Iso’s are all about how the floor is spaced and its geared toward exploiting certain man to man matchups.
But I have a question… How can he be double teamed so often if we only run iso plays for him? Unless we spread the floor worse than anybody ever.
Good post Mason. KOC has the bench so deep, its nearly impossible to !@#$% any lineup rotations. I hope Al gets max minutes and blackholes the team into a streak of losses early. I dont think KOC will mess around with Ty’s B.S. rotations again this year. Al gets shipped and – = + for Favors and Kanter.
Bottom line with the AL debate. He is a center that does NOT go to the free throw line. Thats a problem.
Just like I’ve been saying since halfway through last season, Corbin deserves a shot. This is Corbin’s chance to prove he’s able to be a head coach in the NBA.
He deserves a legitimate, full length season with training camp to prove himself. If he’s still severly mismanaging rotations at the end of this season, he should be gone.
Keep in mind that Ty was handed a complete mess of a team. A lesser coach would have allowed the team to become completely disfunctional. He handled it like a true professional. Although I don’t know the numbers, I’m sure that most head coahces in the NBA didn’t get to the playoffs in their first season as head coach, especially not in the far more competetive Western Conference.
Corbin deserves our support. Sure, he made some big mistakes. It’s a lot easier to coach a basketball team from our couches or TVs than it is to coach in the locker room, especially in dealing with drama queens (Miles, Watson) and locker room cancers (Bell, Howard).
Well they know he does not pass out. He started to better this year but he coud drop 10 assists a game sometimes and then teams would start backing off him.
Go watch Dwight Howard receive the ball in the Post they ran the same system that Corbin is trying to run. When he receives he will kick immediately back put then the wing collapses he kicks it right back out and if he does not he makes his move. Dwight is an exceptional passer out of the post and that is what makes his team so effective at making threes. This is not enough though and that is why the Magic really can not make it that far. They have put the right players around Dwight to run that system but that system will not work. You need more movement not live and die by the three. That is what Corbin is trying to do but that is not what brings out the talent of all of our players. Or really any of our players. The same reason the d’Antonio system will never win a championship is why the post Iso system will never win. There are fatal flaws that can easily be exposed.
The NBA is turning into a very fluid game with a ton of movement and frankly we can not do that or protect that with Al on the floor
I understand Ty was thrown into a tough situation. Now is his real test. NO excuses after this season. I hope it clicks as a head coach for him. If we miss the playoffs fans are going to be calling for his head.
I disagree that a post ISO system could never win a championship. But an Al Jefferson post ISO system? No. You need more options than Big Al has skills. You need an explosive big who can get around his defender, get to the hoop and get fouled to counter the short-range push shot. The defense can’t know exactly where your shot is coming off every time you get the ball, like Tim Duncan did when guarding Al this year. You need a much better and more willing passer who can see the court from the post along with players who cut well, screen well, and shoot the three well. And that’s just the offensive side. On defense, you need guys who are athletic. That’s the way the league is trending. There’s very few ‘power’ players in the league anymore. Explosive athletecism is what you have to guard these days, with a few exceptions. You need a team full of guys who can guard that, and a coach who can adjust to showcase team strengths and hide weaknesses.
Big Al is missing on a lot of those things (passing, athletecism, defense, a counter-move (when his up-and-under counter isn’t working) like taking the ball explosively past his man to the rim, so no, we are not winning any championships under that system any time soon, let alone first round playoff series.
Big Al aside, I think we have the personnel and talent to be a very athletic, movement-based team that gets a lot of points of cuts, screens and drive/kicks. Al is like the antithesis to that in his post-ISO-centricity. I do think Al could have a place in such a system, but it would be a lesser role and you couldn’t pay that type of guy $15M a year. That’s the main problem and the reason why I think Big Al needs to be traded.