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Trades to help the team.
Posted by: Dallan Forsyth on December 16th, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.I think a lot of people could agree that something needs to happen. Something needs to change and especially if we want some of these young guys to stick around. The way they have been treated does not exactly scream we want you here. Randy Foye is currently getting as many minutes as Hayward. That should never happen and some games Hayward is playing under 20 mins because Foye is giving what? Not that much to take a guy off the floor that gives you an all around game. Favors over the last 10 games has missed 5 games but the other five? He is averaging 14 mins a game!! Kanter has owned for the last 5 games and he can not seem to get over 15 mins a game even if he is 4-4 with 10 points in 8 mins in the 1st half. Burks? Well we all know he gets no playing time cause we have to continue to play the ineffective combo of Tinsley and Watson.
No matter what is said by local media the Al Jefferson/Paul Millsap combo is not getting it done. In fact they never have really gotten it done. With Al & Paul both playing in a game the Jazz are 88-85 over the last 3 years (thanks @Peter_J_Novak). So what kind of Data points do we need to continue to take in? We know what that combo gets us and it is what we saw last year and so far this year. Average at best! So here are some trades that would help improve the team. I will explain why I feel they would improve the team.
Here is the 1st one with Toronto: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c35pf25
Why do we do this? We do this because we need an upgrade at our back up PG position this is obvious. We also in my eyes need a true center. Not 5 PF with 2 undersized which is what we have. So we get a 5th big that is HUGE and we get better at the back up PG. We fix two back up issues and then also get better by playing Favors and Kanter more.
Here is the 2nd one with Boston: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cz2ebbv
Why we do this? We get Pierce who may only be here for 2 years but he is a winner and brings a winning mentality unlike some of the people that are currently playing for this organization right now. We would get a pick in this scenario probably in 2014 or 2015. The reason they do this is they are faltering right now. They are not the same team and Al loves Boston. He would not mind going back there so they would not be just giving up Pierce for nothing. Yes Pierce seems like a Celtic for life but Malone once felt like a Jazz Man for life and he went to the Lakers to try for a championship.
Here is a 3rd one combining last two: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bmckwoa
Why do we do this? Well the reasons are pretty much the same as above. The other teams do this because Boston does not lose in the scoring department and gets a better back up PG then using a SG at the position. Toronto gets a quality vet big that works his butt off and would fit either next to Valancunias or Bargnani. Do we give up both our bigs? Yes we do but if we send away either big are we guaranteed the other stays in free agency? Are we going to sign them no matter what kind of money it takes? I would hope not. We get some players on cheap contracts that would be good back up big men!
Here is the 4th one: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=brbkda7
Why we do this trade? Well we get a PG of the future in Jennings. Yes he is a free agent next year but he is a restricted one so keeping him is not really an issue. We can match anything he is given. Yes he has stated he wants to be in a big market but where is he going to get that? There is not a single big market that he could go sign in that has money. So we get him in here let him run some P&R with Favors and he will be in Heaven. He brings an all around game. Our defense with Jennings,Hayward,Favors,Kanter on the floor would be AWESOME! A player is more likely to come here and stay here is they are winning. You think that OKC would be a top destination for people because of the community? Of course not but they are winning so people would go there. If we show him we want to win and show the other players we want to win we could get him and he would be fine.
Replies: 23
Views: 780
23 Responses
wherever the we need it now!
wherever the trade we need it now!
Dallon on each of your trades you are on the minus side on overall points scored.
Bucks trade too much baggage picked up.
I like Jennings and Jazz could open up a new world for him.
Pierce would be ok also. I like Wall too..
Opps. I meant minus side on projected wins..
Haha I was like points what? But ya I do not really believe that projected win on that thing. The only way we get a positive projected wins would be trading for people we are not getting Al for.
I’d take any of those. I also like the Wall Okafor trade that someone flagged a few days ago. The projected wins are based on individual player stats which hide the real flaws of Millsap and Al. Any chance we could include Corbin for Rivers in the Celtics trade?
I still like the trade mentioned earlier andrea caldron excuse my spelling on raptor names its difficult for milsap and al. Or i like the idea of going after a paul george or tyeke evan.
I’m no longer sure the point guard position is where we need the most help. Mo Williams is in the top ten in the NBA in assists at 7 per game. The one thing Tinsley does do well is pass the ball (he averages around 5 assists a night). Also, Earl Watson averages almost 4 assists per game. Overall, the Jazz are near the top of the league in the assist department. For the above reasons, I don’t really feel like Calderon fills a pressing need for us. I mean, you could replace Tinsley and Watson with Jose, but I don’t see how that really makes our team better.
Our offensive numbers are all pretty strong across the board. Where this team is really struggling (at least according to the stats) is on the defensive end. We are in the bottom third of the league when it comes to defense. I’m not sure why we are so bad on the defensive end. Marvin, Carroll, Favors, Kanter, Watson, and Hayward are all pretty decent defenders. Mo Williams isn’t great defensively, but for a point guard, he’s adequate. The guys who probably deserve the most blame for our less then stellar play on the defensive end are Jefferson, Millsap, Foye, Tinsley. All four of these players are averaging between 32 to 19 minutes per game. Three of these players are actually starters. I think a great deal of the blame needs to fall on Coach Corbin. He doesn’t seem to have a very sound defensive philosophy.
If anything, I think the Jazz need to trade a little offense for defense. We don’t have a 7 footer who can clog the middle. We could really use one. I’ve watched the Gray kid from Toronto, and he’s a complete stiff. I wouldn’t want him. Pierce isn’t a good fit for our team, and we aren’t a good fit for him. He’s at the end of his career, and we already have Marvin, Carroll, Hayward, Foye, and Burks on the wings. Brandon Jennings is an intriguing possibility, and I wouldn’t be completely opposed to bringing him in, but he’s a career 39% shooter from the field, and he averages less assists per game (around 5) then Mo Williams. Mo is better shooter then Brandon as well. Like Jefferson, Jennings isn’t the most efficient of players. I’m really not sure what the best answer for this team is at the moment. I do know we need more toughness (especially after watching the home loss to the Grizzlies), and despite the depth of our front line, more height.
Jason I agree with some of your imput . But I feel this team does not play with any heart . The defense is lacking in the paint and on the perimiter . There seams to be confusion as to who does what and where .
I saw Mo and Hayward both trying to do the p&r and it seamed to me no one knew where they needed to be to be affective . When they ran it right they were successful , but all to often they seam uncomfortable with it .
They also seam afraid to go into the basket so they settle for outside shots . I think that Kanter tries but he is always double and tripled in the post . So unless they are on fire on theperimiter the post is not open for them .
I feel this is a effort issue mostly , so how do we fix that ? I am not so sure that making all these trades help us . I do feel that maybe we need to move one of our bigs since it is so hard for the minutes to be distributed amongest them all . But we need someone that wants to play here and will give their all no matter what .
So if we trade then we trade for someone that helps us become a contender not just alittle better . Because it is so hard to get someone that wants to play here .
That is mt 20 cents worth .
I’ll throw a trade idea out there…it works out money wise on the trade machine.
Utah trades Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap, and Randy Foye to Portland for LaMarcus Aldridge, Wesley Matthews, and Joel Freeland.
The Blazer are going nowhere with Aldridge (whose had various health and injury issues in recent years), and lack depth off the bench. This trade would allow them to bring Hickson off the bench. They could have a starting lineup of Lillard, Foye, Batum, Millsap, and Jefferson.
This trade would break up Utah’s logjam in the frontcourt, and improve our backcourt defensively. The Jazz could have a starting lineup of Aldridge, Favors, Marvin, Matthews, and Mo. They could also start Kanter in place of Favors, use Aldridge at the four spot, and bring Derrick off the bench. Freeland would become our fourth big (playing very limited minutes). In this scenario, I would like Hayward to basically remain on the bench, and become the offensive focal point with the second group. You could have a second group of Kanter, Freeland, Carroll, Hayward, and Tinsley.
The last trade with the Bucks is the only one that has a slim possibility of happening.
@Jason: I agree, a trade like this with the blazers is a possibility.
I also could see a Jefferson to Atlanta, Bell and Josh Smith to Lakers, and Pau to Utah.
Finally, I would like to see a move to get Beldsoe if possible. I think it would have to be Millsap, or we could give them Jefferson but would have to take back DeAndre Jordan as well.
I would hate to see us getting Calderon- garbage. I don’t care what he’s done the last few games. THERE’S NO ONE ELSE ON THAT TEAM ANYWAY, so of course he’s going to do well at some point.
@Ben I would usually agree but a triple double is impressive no matter what team your playing for. You are hustling for rebounds as a PG. with the assists as bad as the team is you are putting them in positions to score. Which I would bet would give you more assists if he played with good players.
@Jason. I actually really really like that trade. I would wonder if we could get Hickson instead of Freeland though. What have you seen out of Freeland that would make you want him? Or was it just the salary you were looking at? Also I think what he brings over Tinsley and Watson is he is a credible threat offensively. It is 4 on 5 on the offensive end with them out there, there guard literally follows another player cause they re basically saying sure you guys suck go ahead and beat us.That is what I think he adds, plus if we get rid of Foye in that deal if need be Mo could play some two. Only if need be though cause minutes should be given to the other wings on the roster. Plus Mo injury are not done yet. That gives us an actual legitimate back up.
With the defense Tinsley actually has been hidden pretty well being on the floor with Carrol,Kanter,Favors,Hayward. So his defensive rating is third best on the team. Foye is a real problem defensively. In fact for all the talk about the reason we start the players we do is offense is insane. 4 of 5 players in the starting lineup are a negative on the differential between offense and defense. The only one not is Marvin. But his positive 4.2 is taken away by Foye negative 4.9. Our starters are pretty bad and because Favors and Hayward actually play with the starters or (Al) really there defensive ratings are lower overall. The Tinsley,Carrol,Hayward,Favors,Kanter lineup defensively is a .77 and a 1.19 offensive rating. That is the 2nd best defensive unit and the 5th best offensive unit but the only ones better offensively have a tiny sample size. Like 15 mins small..
The problem with the Jazz’s record not being greater than 88-85 has never been the Jefferson/Millsap combo. They are good solid dependable pro’s. They have pulled us up to where we are today, without them this team would be much worse off. Those players were never supposed to be this teams main focus point they were supposed to compliment the star. Unfortunately for this team of the last two seasons there hasn’t been the star player for them to back up.
As high as I am on Hayward, Favors and to a lesser extent Kanter and Burks those are all young players who are all inconsistent from game to game. Substituting either Jefferson or Millsap for a backup PG isn’t going to improve this team.
This team needs a player that can move the team onto a new level. Taking away one of the team’s more dependable players for a backup is going to be a step back. As much as I’d like to see Calderon here backing up Mo I can’t see the value of ditching Millsap for that. As much as I am critical of Jefferson’s defense and offensive dependabiity against playoff quality teams I wouldn’t want to swap him for Pierce. Pierce is just two months younger than me at 35 years of age. Take him out of Boston where he is happy and he might just say “Screw it, I’ll retire!” Jefferson at least shows signs of wanting to be here. He’s not the long term answer for this team to get greater success as long as he is the main focus of the offense but you keep up until you can’t keep him any longer if you can’t get anything better. He’s not a great player but he’s a good player and you don’t give up a good player for nothing, and that’s what an exchange for Pierce could possibly turn out to be.
Ideally we exchange Jefferson or Millsap, or both for that one person that moves this franchise on to a new level. A 35 year old player is very unlikely to do that, a backup PG though nice isn’t going to do that on his own, not when we would have to bring on two young players offensively forward by leaps and bounds to pick up the slack of one or two solid players who are no longer here.
We have Jefferson who is on a good sized contract which in theory should enable us to got after a real good player in exchange, sadly though Al isn’t as well rounded as you would like on a player of that salary, so finding a taker for that contract might be difficult in a deal that we would like. That doesn’t mean you take less than what those players are worth.
Anther trade idea milsap watson and bell or burks for alexy shevd and ak
The three way trades between ATL, LAL and UT are interesting.
We could ship Al, Bell and Watson and get back Gasol and Teague.
Here is the link : http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c4lrcg7
@Steven – I think you are as short-sighted as the Jazz fo. Sure we might miss out on the 8th seed but the future will be so much brighter.
Sorry guys but I have to agree with Steven . The only way I trade any of them is if we can get us a player that puts us in contention , which will be hard to do . We have a hard enough time finding good players that want to be in Utah .
I understand that we need to move a big so there are more minutes for the young guys , but to take on older vetrans or unproven players is my idea of insane .
You all complain so much for the vetran players that we pick up evry trade .At first you like it then you dont after they get here .
This team needs players that want to be here so they put out thier best efforts every nite . This is where I feel is our problem rite now . We have players that dont come with everything they have every nite .
Disco I think that we all can be alittle short sighted about differant areas of this team , aint ya glad you are not in the FO to take the heat ? Beleive me you will because that is the nature of that position .
That is my 10 cents worth .
I wouldn’t want pau on the team he’s a 32 year old with blown out knees i wouldn’t pass on him if i was utah
Personal opinion here and long time Jazz fan, but right now there simply isn’t a lot out there in terms of available players that are comparable to Big Al and Sap. I agree the have the defensive deficiencies but that doesn’t mean we should trade for someone like Calderon and have him as the back up instead of Watson or JT…Calderon has a 10 million dollar contract, that’s outrageous for a backup.
If you’re going to get rid of Sap or Big Al, we need to be smart about it and not just trade them because of our typical mentality as fans where the grass is always greener. If you’re going to trade for a PG you want someone young that could develop (Darren Collison in Dallas is on the block) but there would have to be draft picks coming back to Utah and possibly some cash as well. Another possibility is Myers Leonard in Portland and Wesley Mathews for Burks and Sap. The money makes sense, Portland would like to get rid of Mathews contract and rebuild and we’d have a solid, true Center prospect in Myers. He would be the perfect running mate with Favors. With this trade if we don’t get anything from Jefferson before the trade deadline or we can’t resign him at a fair amount (11-13 mill) we let him walk, but in the mean time this buys us time to see if some of our young core can develop offensively. IF, IF we can have someone step up offensively we can afford to lose Jefferson, but if we don’t we simply couldn’t score without him.
But Dallan, all in all thank you for suggestion some trades. All we most of us keep hearing is “trade Al or Paul” but rarely are there scenarios given. I don’t like your suggestions, just because primarily we are acquiring older talent that frankly won’t put us over the top. If we make a move I’d like it to be something that could lead us for years, instead of leading us to the regular early playoff exits that we’re accustomed to. As Mark Cuban said “there’s nothing worse than winning 41 games, that’s no mans land”
build for the future, not for now, not unless a combination of players will make us a true contender. Pierce, Calderon and company buy us first round-maybe second round exits, for just a couple years and that’s 10s of millions spent and we just start rebuilding in a couple years. No thank you my friends. Also understand that we may trade nobody and next year we lose a large percentage of our players to free agency, and we truly rebuild. I don’t think that will happen but it’s possible.
@ Chase I agree with your sentiment about building for the future but I dont see how keeping Al and Millsap is building for the future. Giving them away is building for the future as it gives young, quality players more time. I also think your statement about being unable to score without Jefferson is unrealistic. I would like to be in the FO so that I could hear exactly what people are offering for the pair
I don’t think anyone here is saying that keeping both Al and Milsap is the cornerstone of our future success. What some are saying is you don’t give up two easily 27 year olds who like playing at the Jazz for a 35 year old whose career is almost done and may decide he’s had enough, or give up Millsap for a $10m backup PG. That short sightedness would be a step backwards. Today, and in the future when we would have to rebuild down the road. We are saying you keep those players until we get something better. Or you let them go when their contracts are up at the end of the season and test free agency. Or you sign them up and trade them. Like Denver did with Nene and others. Last year the Nuggets were signing up all their players up in long term contracts. It didn’t mean that they kept them around for the length of the contracts. Nene stayed but a few months on his new deal. And when the nuggets got the opportunity to get Iguadola they traded another long term contract.
I like Pau, but I don’t like him at $19m. Great passing Big that he is I don’t see him as the player that is going to transform this team. He is the type of player that makes a great player better but he isn’t the star himself. The Jazz wouldn’t don’t have a star right now, and the Jazz couldn’t afford a star with him here.
I like A, but at $15m I think he’s too expensive and I didn’t think the Jazz have ever been convinced that he was the the long term answer at the center position. What he was, was a stop gap for the loss of Boozer, he was never expected to be the star player of this team, but at that moment the Jazz weren’t expect to lose Devon within a few months of his arrival. Since then teh Jazz have acquired Favors and drafted Kanter. Since that day, Jefferson’s days here have been numbered, that said you don’t give up for nothing or for a 35 year old. If Pierce was 3 years younger, I would look at that deal with interest. Paul Pierce has probably signed his last big contract of his career, he done just about everything he wanted to do, he doesn’t need the Jazz at this point. Besides the Jazz have been needing a star since the day Devon left. With Al’s contract and all the expiring contracts the opportunity is ripe to explore the possibilities of acquiring that type of player. You don’t waste that opportunity for a bag of chips and some salsa. I don’t expect Chris Paul to give up the Clippers for the Jazz, but if he doesn’t sign up at the Clippers he is available at the end of the season. That type of player would move this team with Favors and Hayward on to a new level. This team as it stands is already a playoff team without a guy of Paul’s ability in the team whereas the Clippers wasn’t. Add Paul or another star player to the team where would the level of this team be?