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The Future of the Jazz pt. 1
Posted by: Nick Knows All on August 23rd, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.This is the first of 2 posts. First I’ll talk about this upcoming season, then next I’ll talk about free agency in 2013/2014. I apologize beforehand for the length. But hear me out.
I believe we are going to make some serious noise in the Western Conference this season, competing with the Clippers, Nuggets and Grizzlies (potentially even the Lakers) for the 3-7 seeds in the 2013 playoffs. There’s simply no way we’re going to do worse than we did last year, because we have improved in the areas we needed to improve the most-perimiter shooting and defense.
If you listen to Locked on Jazz, you should know that our defense has not improved very much statistically—on paper so to speak. That is, Mo and Marvin Williams are not in the same tier of defenders at their positions as Deron Williams or Andre Igoudala.
But Mo and Marvin ARE defensive upgrades over Devin Harris, Josh Howard, and CJ Miles (statistically, CJ Miles was a good defender—even though his defensive philosophy was to just foul the ball-handler. That just goes to show that statistics must be taken with a grain of salt).
The good news is that two of our newest additions have been unanimously described as the big T-word: TOUGH. Willing to get gritty, take charges, and set screens, do the stuff that’s not neccessarily flashy, but produces results.
There’s a reason this word is important. Players are either tough, average, or soft. Paul Millsap is TOUGH. Demarre Carrol is tough (a great example of a player who gets by on toughness alone). On the other hand, you’ve got guys like Carlos Boozer, Kyle Korver, Carmello Anthony. These guys could be phenomenal basketball players, they’re all extremely talented, but they’re SOFT. They’re NOT willing to do whatever it takes to win.
These things do not neccessarily appear in traditional or even advanced statistics. Remember last season when Devin Harris famously declared he was “too old” to take charges? How he missed a dozen games with knee and ankle injuries? That’s one of the reasons we traded him to get Mo, who is if nothing else, a sturdy dude with no real history of injuries.
So while the numbers say that our defense has not improved significantly because Mo and Marvin are not incredible defendersindividually, our team defense has improved significantly by nature of their toughness.
With a starting lineup that includes two near-elite defenders in Derrick Favors and Gordon Hayward, plus a reliable, proven point guard who’s willing to defend his position, we have a significantly better defensivecore than we did last year.
But this is definitely contingent on having Derrick Favors start at the four. The more time Favors spends on the court, the harder it will be for teams to score. Period.
We’ve all heard the words “addition by subtraction” used to describe our offseason. Case in point: Raja Bell, CJ Miles, and Josh Howard. All terrible basketball players, all no longer on the Jazz.
Last season, Raja Bell’s offense improved while his defense got worse. CJ’s defense improved slightly while his offense got even worse. And Josh Howard just sucks at basketball period. Devin Harris was a good basketball player, but not a good point guard.
Mo Williams is a good basketball player, but also a good point guard.
Most importantly, yes, even more important than our defensive upgrades, we’ve finally solved the most glaring and damning weakness of our team. We were one of the worst teams in the NBA at it. We got killed night in and night out because of it. Teams didn’t even bother to defend against it.
Three. Point. Shooting.
Yes Jazz fans. For the first time since we lost Deron Williams, Wesley Matthews, and Kyle Korver, we have players that can actually shoot the basketball from outside.
Did you know that the Celtics MADE more 3 pointers than the Jazz ATTEMPTED last season?
Randy Foye, Marvin Williams, and Mo Williams are all bonafide threats from downtown, and Gordon Hayward will continue to improve at it. We now have 4 players who can make 3 pointers.
Glory hallelujah, Jazz Nation. The 3 pointer has returned to Utah.
Replies: 27
Views: 1012
27 Responses
Amen, finally a more complete game. Did I miss something? Did raja finally get shipped?
CJ was bad defensively because he fouled so much. Same for Howard and Raja. You cant win alot with as much as we fouled last year.
I really wish we had a coach that would run a Pick and Fade from the point with Kanter and Millsap spotting up J’s so we could isolate Favors in the paint 1 on 1. Guess I could just say I wish we had a coach that can use his talent.
@Jazzeduponit: No, Raja is still technically on the team. But he won’t actually be a member of the team. And talk about a poison in the locker room. No way KOC, Lindsey and Corbin allow him anywhere near the team.
Yep. We’re also one of the worst teams in the NBA at fouling. That needs to be adressed as well. I agree Millsap needs to take more jumpers. He’s got a great stroke.
Well I had a bigger response and it got erased but basically our coach does not let our players shoot threes will it be different?
Also Al is the problem on defense not the wings
Great post, great responses. Our success this next year is contingent upon a lot of things. I’ll list what you guys have said and add some of my own:
1. Favors starting, (PF or C, I don’t care).
2. Counter-plays to the post: three or the pass to the cutter in the lane. You have to keep defenses honest, and you don’t do that by running the same thing every time.
3. Stop fouling! Just play defense, stay between your man and the basket, get a hand up when the shot goes up, and box out and rebound.
3. Use Al Jefferson in a better way. He’s reliable in the clutch, and that’s not something I can say about Favors yet. But riding Al all game is a losing proposition, until he can learn to drive to the hoop and get fouled. Al needs less time on the court and less offensive focus, but needs to be in during crunch time.
4. Pick and Pop with Kanter, high post jumper, even some corner threes a-la Kevin Love. That Turkish coach was right, we aren’t using Kanter the right way. Go watch Kanter’s YouTube highlights and you’ll see him shooting the ball well. Yet, what do we see him doing in-game? Posting up flat-footed. While Favors should excel around the rim because of athletecism, Kanter is a better shooter. RUN PLAYS THAT USE HIS BEST SKILLS. Seriously, an NBA coach doesn’t know that?
5. Don’t play Raja, CJ or Josh Howard. Ok, that one KOC took care of. Thank goodness.
6. Play the best performing player. This may or may not be the veteran, it could be the lottery-pick rookie, or an undrafted guy with something to prove. Also, someone coming back from an injury should be worked in SLOWLY.
I think KOC’s done his job, assembling a depth of talent at every position, with a mix of veteran experience and youthful energy.
I hope and I believe the young guys will improve.
I hope and believe the vets can lead the team.
My questions at this point are almost all about whether Tyrone Corbin can really coach, and almost all those things I mentioned above have to do with the coach. Minutes, plays, philosophies, strategies, maximizing strengths while minimizing weaknesses. I really am expecting Ty to grow this year, but if he doesn’t, I’m not sure the Jazz should continue with him.
The Jazz didn’t attempt many 3s last year because of the coaching philosophy. Corbin hasn’t shown me that he will adjust for his players’ strengths, so sadly I do not anticipate more 3s this year.
I also see AL Jefferson being a better passer this year knowing he has 3 point threats to pass the ball out to. Having the best iso scoring center in the NBA means you have to surround him with people that work with his style. Having guys on the 3 point line ready to shoot when their guy goes to double Jefferson will be a huge help for us on the offensive end. We will be monsters on offense with Jefferson and 3 point shooters.
I really hope that on the Defense Jefferson improves his hustle. I think having another Big big man on the floor (Favors because Sap is undersized) will help him as well. Favors can help from the weak side and hopefully push Jefferson to be a better defender.
I agree with the sentiment about Corbin, but Im not sure he actually ran any plays last year. @Nick – That Celtics stat is quite amazing. I think competing with the Lakers is a long shot depending on Howard’s back and whether someone has taught Corbin how to coach. @KC – I agree with all points.
My biggest issue is the comments about toxic Raja. Wasn’t he simply putting forward the opinion that many of us are putting forward on here. Yes it could’ve been done better and he certainly could’ve handled himself better in the offseason, but can you really blame him for being frustrated with the whole philosophy.
actually disco… on point. thats a valid thought. Raja might not be such a culprit being frustrated with how !@#$% up rotations and assignments got on some nights.
My view on the Raja situation is that he’s not in a position to publicly scorn anyone, much less his team or coach. When you’re a player, you don’t go public on how much you disagree with the coach; That should be behind closed doors. And it adds to the toxicity that he’s the worst basketball player we’ve seen since Ronnie Price or even Jarron Collins. His trap should have stayed bolted shut through the entire season. He’s got no room to criticize anyone.
As for Ty not running better offensive plays, why would he do that last season when the offense consisted of feeding Jefferson at the post? He may or may not write up some decent arc plays, and if he doesn’t, he needs to be shipped out. NBA team managements should be more of a science than anything else-Discard the unproductive pieces and replace them with better ones. Sentimentality has no room in a team that’s looking to get back in the races. And while I love Jefferson as a person, he’s no longer a fit for the team, and I think he needs to be shipped too.
@ Andrew Yes, Raja was absolutely unprofessional and CJ was stupid to follow his lead during locker clean out.
One thing Ty does real well is game film prep and disecting the opponent before getting on the court each game. It might contribute to his strange lineups. There are a lot of games last season that corbin’s defensive scheme shut down the other teams lead scorer or players who create the offense momentum.
None of that will matter and we wont win games without playing the best talent and keeping guys on the court that play team basketball.
@KC great comments number 4 was my favorite and spot on!
@ Nick I really liked this article good job.
@disco I said the same thing about raja a couple weeks ago and got yelled at glad you are saying something
@brandon it is not just about Al passing it but when he passes. The two wings that played with Al the most in Hayward and Harris got the ball under 5 seconds and took a shot over 40% of their shots. Compare that to Mo and Foye and they are right at 30% that is a drastic percentage drop. I would not expect anyone to be a great spot up shooter when it is a desperation shot.
@ Jazzed uponit , What did CJ do I must have missed what happened with him ?
I think that some of Coach Corbins issues were stemmed with the management . I do hope that this year they work on differant plays . That will help open things up and be less predictable on both sides of the ball .
I also hope that the players have worked real hard this offseason to get better with all this potentail that we have on this roster .
I still think that Corbin will get better as he learns more about his players . He has this year to prve his worth to all who watch him .
Lets Go Jazz !!!!! I still beleive !!!!!
@Jay he said he got the ball late in the shot clock. He said they were basically told not to shoot threes. He said Corbin was not very good at communicating. Basically all he said was true BUT he probably should not have said it in an interview with Locke that was going to be broadcasted for all Jazz fans to listen to
Also interesting to note he complained about getting the ball late in the shot clock but only 30% of his shots were below 10 seconds so he has no reason to complain because he was not even close to what Harris and Hayward had to deal with.
While Raja may have made a valid point when he complained about Corbin, I think most of it was him making a childish excuse as to why his play has been so poor. As you said, Dallan, a low percentage of his shots were below 10 seconds on the shot clock. They were mostly spot up shots that he just can’t make. He’s a bad player. No sugar coating it.
@Jay, CJ signed with the Cavs a week or so back. I’m happy for him and have always liked him as a person, but I’m glad he’s not with the Jazz anymore. I think we’ve all had enough of his inconsistency.
Corbin is definitely on probation. I dont know if Corbin is such a horrible Xs and Os guy as he is passive and deferring. He needs to set his foot down, and forget about contracts and years in the league, and just play the best players on BOTH sides of the court. Defensively the Jazz played pretty damn great when Al had DNPs, and now upgrading to Marvin, Foye, and Mo, I see the Jazz being a top 3 defense, finishing 4th (struggle a little early, but catch fire late), beat the Clips, Jazz vs OKC = Jazz in 6, Lakers v Jazz =Jazz in 7. Jazz vs Heat =Jazz in 5.
If the Jazz can get out of the West, Jazz will destroy the Heat:
Favors v Bosh
Millsap v Battier
Marvin v LBJ
Hayward v Wade
Mo v whatever jobber PG they play.
Jazz have advantage size advantage across the board, bench:
Burks, Foye, Kanter, Evans v bunch of jobbers.
Just survive the West PG/SGs of OKC, Spurs, Lakers, CP3, the championship is a breeze.
Awesome replies everybody. Definitely some food for thought.
@Disco: can’t claim credit for that Celtics 3 pointers gem. That was from Locked on Jazz.
@KC and Dallan: thanks for the positive feedback guys. Appreciate it.
@Disco and Jazzed upon it, regarding Raja Bell, the reason I’m disgusted with Raja is not only because he publicly talked trash on his Head Coach.
Players are entitled to their opinions, just like everybody else. It was the way he went about complaining about it publicly, after missing a ton of games getting 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th opinions about his knee injury. He was obvioussly absent on purpose. Totally passive agressive.
The reason I, and I think most people lost all respect for Raja Bell, is that he has no integrity. He lied. Just like Fisher lied (not that extreme, but still).
He made a verbal agreement with the Jazz, and then when he didn’t get exactly what he wanted, he reneged on that agreement. He is trying to hold the Jazz hostage and bleed more money from them. THAT is why Raja Bell is a cancer. That and he sucks at basketball.
I agree with David Locke and some other Jazz analysts in that fans notions of Corbin are unfair. It is complete ignorant of people to call Corbin a bad coach.
Corbin salvaged this Jazz team. Corbin saved this organization from disintegrating into a bottom feeder. Look what happened to the Cavs after they lost Lebron James. Look what happened to the Hornets after they lost Chris paul.
Corbin had to deal with arrogant players like Raja Bell and Josh Howard. He managed to both placate the veterans AND find time for the young guys. Corbin kept us competitive. Corbin got this team into the playoffs in the superior Western Conference.
There’s a lot more to coaching a team than making substitutions, people. Do you have any idea how hard head coaches work? at least 75% of what they do is not on camera.
NOW. I’ve said before that Corbin has made tons of mistakes. His player substitutions sucked. He did not give enough time to one, maybe two players that deserved it.
Derrick Favors was the only player who was truly under utilized last season. Burks plays zero defense. Jeremy evans plays zero defense. Kanter, though I love the guy, was simply not ready to play.
Would you rather Kanter had started at center last year? Earl Watson start at point guard? Derrick Favors start at power forward (with his limited offensive game)?
Take a minimum of 20 points off the board then.
No training camp.
No superstar point guard.
No dominating power forward.
An offense-only center.
An awful backcourt.
Awful wing players.
All I’m saying is, give the guy a chance.
wow, best post/comments Ive read on here for a long time. I would agree that Ty has to prove himself this year. I personaly feel he should do much better scince he will finally have a camp/preseason to work with. mostly I really hope Favors gets more time, and we dont burn our bridge for resigning him.
good post Nick.
Here is my thing with Corbin. I understand the whole ego thing. I understand he did not have a full off season BUT!!
We made the playoffs despite him. Injuries are why we made the playoffs not him. If it was left up to him Burks and Carrol woukd have had more DNP-CD and he woukd have played the “vets” more.
The player development is purely on his shoulders. I read on another site how he could not really use the players skills because of the lockout. Are you kidding me? After every game people were on here befuddled as to why he played this person or why this other person was not used correctly. I can go on YouTube and find 5 tapes of Kanter shooting with range and your telling me the coaches could not find that? They did not have anything that showed them that? Coaching is not just implementing your system and then making all the players suppress their best skills to fit if they do not fit what you are trying to do. Ty does that and I will be shocked if anything changes.
I do think it was more difficult to do in the lockout year but like I said when I have College, work, two kids, homework and can sit down and watch a jazz game and see what Corbin should be seeing to make the gem better then he is not a very good coach
Two things:
1. Hayward is nowhere near an elite defender. He’s decent but he’s not shutting down or significantly bothering any of the elite players in the league on a consistent basis so having that line of thinking is just silly.
2. Josh Howard is not a terrible basketball player. He was brought down last year because of injuries but before he missed games he was our most consistent player off of the bench. He also is a former all-star so please.
Hey thanx for the info on that , I somehow missed it . I do think that alot of his shots were late in the shot clock although he should have left that alone as well as Raja Bell .
I also agree with most of what Nick Knows All said about Coach Corbin . I think that he did as well as anyone who took over with his experience of coaching .
I am a beleiver that he will do better this year .
Omar it is good to see some confident optimism about how we will do this year . I do think that if all the players can mesh together , we will have a good year . But there is still alot of variables that can come into play in that respect of success . As we all know that injuries can hurt any good teams chances for post season success . The meshing of vets and rookies is important too . How much work was put into the off season to get better . These are just a few things that play a big part in that .
But as a Jazz Fan I still beleive in the Jazz now and Forever . Go Jazz !!!!!!!!!
I would have to disagree Sam. Coach Brooks said the best person that guarded Durant all year was Hayward. Kobe has said he is a great defender. In the playoffs go look at Ginobli numbers in our series and in all the others. Go look at the numbers when Tony Parker was being guarded by Hayward. He is a elite defender.
Hayward is absolutely an elite defender, Sam. When Kobe Bryant, one of the most proficient offensive players in the league, compliments your defense, you know you’re doing something right. He’s long and quick and has a great defensive mind.
And where do you find consistency in Howard? He had one or two decent games and then turned into an ungrateful douche. He’s mediocre at best, and potentially a Raja Bell-esque cancer to a team.
I agree with Dallan and Andrew regarding Hayward’s defence. Howard did average good numbers pre injury but it took him alot of shots to do so hence the word former before all star. @ Nick, I think the word ignorant is wrong, I’d probably say premature is the word Locke should’ve used, I do hope that myself and his other detractors are proved wrong. I also think that you need to remember that Locke wouldn’t be where he is if he criticised the coach so there is bias in his statements.
@Sam, what Dallan and Andrew said is spot on. Keep in mind last year was only Hayward’s sophomore season. And he recieved praise uniformly across the NBA as a defender and player.
@Disco, good point about Locke being an employee of the Jazz. Still, Locke and Coach Desalki and Ron Boone are given leeway to do actual reporting. They’ve criticized Corbin and various players on the Jazz for a variety of things, but I think it could probably be described as “soft” criticism.
But in the offseason, Locke says pretty much whatever he thinks. And it definitely hasn’t been half-assed defenses of Corbin or anything like that–Locke emphatically feels that Corbin is very underrated as a coach by Jazz fans.And it’s not like Locke is the best analyst in the NBA, but you can’t tell me the guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I tend to agree with him on most, but definitely not all things.
@KC great points as always.Especially about running more pick and pops and utilizes Kanter’s mid range game.
@Dallan: I agree that Corbin’s substitutions were pretty whack–but he’s also trying to figure things out, which players work well with who, strengths and weaknesses, etc. And you’re right about
And, as I’ve repeatedly said, I’m giving Corbin the benefit of the doubt. This is his time to prove himself. If things go the way they went last season, yes, we would need to find a new coach.
But Dallan, you tend to blame all of the problems with our team on only 2 people: Corbin and Jefferson. It’s a lot more complicated than that man. But you’re right in that the head coach needs to know how to use his player’s strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Corbin needs to do a hell of a lot better at that.
Can’t wait for the season to start. Go jazz.
I am not losing all hope in Corbin if he turns it around that is great! I would be more then happy to have a great coach in the ranks. I just do not see it. If he can not figure it out then he needs to go. Instead of going with someone in house as well I think we need to go look out side the organization first. Portland thought they had there guy from in house and they ended up hiring someone else. They still kept Canales on staff but not as a head coach.
But I do blame someone else Nick. I blame KOC as well. I feel like those are the 3 weakest links right now. Luckily KOC is taking a few steps back and hopefully Lindsey will bring some much needed new blood into this organization.
Hopefully just hopefully changes are made I would not be the least bit upset about it either.