Meet
Kemba Walker or John Wall
Posted by: Nick Knows All on January 22nd, 2013
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.I’ve been very upset about the Jazz point guard situation since Deron Williams was shipped out. I feel like the front office has really blown it these last 3 seasons when it comes to drafting or trading for point guards. Instead, they’ve concentrated exclusive on shoring up the small forward and shooting guard position, which, to be fair, we very much needed an upgrade at.
However, I feel that the Jazz should have displayed more confidence in their young guys, and played Gordon Hayward and Demarre Carroll at the small forward position exclusively. Marvin Williams has been a disaster, through no real fault of his own. Marvin is full of upside, and we’ve seen flashes of brilliant play from him this season, but Corbin has no idea how to emphasize his player’s strengths and minimize their weaknesses (Fire Corbin). Marvin has been pretty much a non factor in Utah.
Then all they would have needed to do was bring in Randy Foye to be the starting shooting guard (which is questionable, but definitely a major improvement over any shooting guard we’ve had in years) and have Alec Burks come off the bench at the 2.
I really feel that if the Jazz had done that, and stuck with a smaller rotation, we could have had a better season thus far, by concentrating fully on the development of Kanter, favors, Hayward, and Burks, and not worry about desperately trying to find minutes for our three small forwards by removing one of them from the equation (Marvin Williams).
The Jazz were high on Lillard, and should have done anything in their power to get him. This includes trading future first round picks, and even our teams most all around best player (Hayward aside) in Paul Millsap. Portland traded Gerald Wallace to the Nets to get the 6th pick in last years draft. Brooklyn would’ve been ecstatic to trade the pick for Paul Millsap. Millsap > Kris Humprhies + Gerald Wallace. I bet they even offered us that trade, but KOC balked.
The 2012 draft was one of the deepest, best drafts of the last decade, and we could have relatively easily traded for the 6th overall pick, Instead, the Jazz couldn’t even manage to get a lottery pick, or even a top 20 pick. We wound up getting almost the 50th pick (47), for a guy who is performing “okay” in the D-league. That is disgraceful, and Kevin O Connor took a major hit to my level of respect for him, and around the rest of the league as well. I fully believe that this is the main reason why we brought in Dennis Lindsey.
At this point, I believe our best options for point guard of the future are either Kemba Walker (Bobcats) or John Wall (wizards). Would I take them over CP3, Kyrie Irving, Damien Lillard, or Jrue Holliday? No. Would I take them over Mo Williams, Earl Watson, and Jamaal Tinsley? Yes.
I’m sure the asking price for Walker and Wall is pretty high, as for once the Bobcats and Wizards are not THE worst team in the NBA right now (thanks Cavs, who we barely beat by 10). But any competent general manager could make a trade happen, if it meant bringing on a third team.
The draft class of point guards this year is garbage. None of them would be lottery picks in a decent draft.
Kemba Walker:
18 ppg, 5.7 apg, 3.4 rpg, 2 spg, 2 to (this is amazing for a starting point guard), on 43% fg, 35% 3p, 78% ft
John Wall:
14 ppg, 6.7 apg, 2.7 rpg, 1.2 spg, 3.2 to, 40% fg, 22% 3p, 81% ft
Kemba Walker is definitely a far superior player. John Wall is a bad shooter, and hasn’t made a single 3 pointer all season (though he’s only played 6 games). Wall is pretty good, but definitely not #1 pick worthy. I think we should make a trade for Kemba Walker, and give up whatever we have to to get him (with the exception of Favors, Kanter, and Hayward).
With the major failures of the front office in acquiring a point guard, I believe we need to get Kemba NOW. He has the potential to be an all star, and all star point guards are NOT something to pass up if you can land them. Otherwise, it’s going to be a pretty painful 4-5 seasons, at the conclusion of which, Faves, Kanter, or Hayward could very well walk or ask to be traded.
Replies: 43
Views: 904
43 Responses
I think you hit it on the head Nick!
Did anyone else see that dunk highlight of Lillard’s last night?! Every time I see LIllard highlight its like a punch in the gut.
How the heck could the Jazz not of gotten Lillard?! What the hell?! Blazers got Lillard for Wallace?! I wish there was a Freedom of Information Act like in place in our government in the NBA, so GM’s would release documents and information pertaining to trades…
Even after the lottery was set, Bobcats were selling their number 2 pick. I cannot see how a combination involving Al, Millsap, UJ 2012 second round, UJ 2013 first, GSW 2013 (now that pick has loss a ton of value probably in the 20s); CBulls 2012 second round pick, taking back bad contracts like Thomas, Maggette in order to get the number 2 pick?! I refuse to believe that! Jazz could have had Lillard, Burks, Hayward, Favors, Kanter THIS YEAR….but instead…
I agree with what you’re saying, I just don’t see it happening. The Jazz FO would never be willing to give up what it would take to get either of those two.
Realistically, what they are wanting is a young, distributing PG to back up Mo and possibly replace him if they decide not to re-sign him. I’m thinking Vasquez is one of the more likely candidates that they would be looking at. He’s younger than Calderon and a third the price.
I think the reason Marvin has pretty much been a non factor this season boils down to having Al on the roster. Thats the same reason Hayward is seen as a better option coming off the bench. If a player doesn’t see the ball theres not much he can do with it.
I don’t see the Jazz being able to do anything to get Lillard last season. He was the stand out PG from last season’s draft and would have been taken before Portland’s pick had those teams been in need of a PG. We should have done a deal with GSW to make sure we had kept that pick in strong draft but Portland would still have drafted before us and they needed a PG as much as we do and so that Lillard in Utah would never have happened. The truth is last season we had very little to offer that we were willing to give up and we as fans were asking a lot in exchange. Once upon a time the Blazers wanted Millsap but they moved on from that period and fired their coach. Last season they were concentrating on building for the future. Their future is brighter with Lillard than sacrificing that for Millsap.
I’m not yet convinced that Kemba is going to be anything better than a decent but unspectacular PG. What kind of deal would the Jazz make that Charlotte would jump on? I don’t see a deal that the Jazz would want to sign. I think with improvements in his decision making and shooting John Wall’s ceiling is higher but he’s unattainable. Wall is the face of the Wizards for the foreseeable future.
I agree Steven! Al hurts not only Marvins game but also Haywards. Hayward should be a starter But Al ruins that. That why I hope Al gets traded. I’ve been watching Kemba’s games all year and I’m impressed. He ceiling is High. I’ve also been watching Vasquez kill it this year too. He is a great all around player. Wall is great player as well. Bottom line is- we all agree a pg is needed…..Bad!
Wait……there’s other talented point guards with some morals out there? I thought our only option was Rondo!!
And I would LOVE to get Wall, Bledsoe, Kemba, Lillard, Calderon, Brandon Knight, or any number of other talented PG’s. I really like Mo, but with his injury, I would also be okay with picking up another talent that we could use in his place until he’s back, and then maybe run them 1-2 when he’s back or hopefully one would accept coming off the bench. A SOLID backup PG would make us one of the deepest teams in the league.
Neither Wall or Rondo would be happy playing in Utah. My vote is Kemba all the way.
Everyone thinks that there is no way we break up our core 4 but Burks has a similar attitude to Wall and Rondo. I think he bails on Utah as soon as he can. I say add him to the trade conversations.
If he doesn’t get increased playing time or a coach that gives him the chance to work on his weaker game elements of course he is going to go. I’m not sure Burks is arrogant but he is certainly confident.
I think its presumptuous of us to think that KOC didn’t try to make a move to get Lillard. None of us have an idea of how difficult it is to pull off a trade….I bet in most instances its a huge mess. We talk about how easy it would be to ‘just give them Millsap’ or ‘just give them Jefferson’ and boom, done deal. Not the case.
Nobody pulled off a trade for a top-10 pick this last draft, it wasn’t just the Jazz. Everyone was keeping their picks unless something completely amazing was offered. A deep draft class & a rookie pay scale that still provides elite talent means tough times to pull off a trade for a top 10 pick.
Nets still want Millsap, I dont see why last year they wouldnt give up the their 2012 pick (which was top 3 protected) to get Millsap then (who has chemistry with DWill) instead of Wallace?! I dont thats a strech or even a presumption.
I don’t think any of you “experts” knows the exact situation. After the pick was traded I think Blazers zoned in on getting Lillard and no one was going to make them give him up other than those who picked before them. Kudos to their scouting team.
@L K
You’re probably right, we more than likely do not know the exact situation. However in all fairness you can’t really say that and then turn around and say what Portland was thinking with Lillard.
How about we have a little fun speculating without geniuses coming in and telling us we have no idea? OBVIOUSLY we don’t know a dang thing about what’s really happening behind closed doors. But that’s why we’re fans on a fan site and not analysts on ESPN.
Seriously we can say that we don’t know. But what we do know is that is we would have had two picks and not made the playoffs there was a team at number 5 that did not want to be there in Sacramento. They did not want that picks and wanted a trade partner. We have pick 7 and say 13 and we trade those two picks and Paul to Sac for Lilliard. BAM it is not that hard.
Comment about the draft, does anybody think Marcus Smart from Ok State might be DWill 2.0? Dude is a major competitor and leader. He can run a team and is a lock down defender. Jazz can’t miss another top PG in the draft.
@LK: the Jazz were also “zoned in” on Lillard, but they gambled that their GSW pick would be high enough to get him. This was all discussed on draft day last year.
@LK: why not try contributing to the conversation other than just yapping your trap?
I would imagine that the Jazz would have had the inside track on Lillard—he was at a school in Utah. We messed up bad. Lillard wasnt eveb in the first round most of the season then late lottery then top ten. Jazz should have had an eye on him, and made moves to gey him.
Blazers didnt have a top ten pick til they traded Wallace in February. At that time PJ3 was a top pick. Things change players move up and down. Jazz should have been ready. Cuz after combine is when Lillard became #1 PG. Hes was 3 or 4th before then. Jazz should have traded intp draft in February not June 24 when teams already love guys and make their pick.
We should teade Al amd maybe Millsap with that idea for 2014, 2015. Even 2013 if there is a guy with high potential.
KOC said ” If I would have made the trade for Lillard you would not like who we would have had to give up. Probably Favors and Kanter.
@Kevin: You are right. Look at the year D-Will and cp3 were drafted. Who in their right mind would have thought Hawks would take Marvin Williams at #2?? Most experts were saying Hawks would take D-Will or cp3 and who ever was left the Jazz would take. Hawks too Marvin for the same reason Blazers took Sam Bowin over Jordan. Or Oden over Durant.Whatever the Blazers got it right last draft. I think it is a two way race for ROY between Beal and Lillard, with Lillard far ahead.
Woulda, Coulda, shoulda, didn’t. No use talking about the failure to get Lillard. After the games since he has been back, Wizards aren’t trading. If we wanted him we shouldve gone for it while he was injured. But once again, no use worrying about the past, you can’t change it.
@disco… +1 to that entire statement. We didn’t get GS’s pick, it was out of our control, let it go. And lillard is quickly rising up the rankings so he is going nowhere. Wall is not going anywhere.
We aren’t looking for trades involving any of the C4, what makes us think other teams are don’t feel the same way about their young guys? As much as i would want kemba or wall its going to take more than what the FO is willing to give up.
For sure the past cannot be changed, but I hope the Jazz can learn from the past.
The Blazers didnt know they draft Lillard at 6 when they traded Wallace in February 2012. But they new that Wallace was expendable and in a deep draft, draft picks have a ton of value. So they gave up an expendable and expiring contract (sound familiar) in order to get a pick.
With picks, you can draft a superstar (ie Lillard) our package picks in order to get a superstar (even though its blown up, Lakers got Nash by packaging 1st round picks).
Unless KOC has a commitment from CP3, having a ton of cap space is only going to work by getting players teams cannot afford, but thats a passive plan. I want pro activity, not “lets see who other teams cant afford and dont want, and consume their contracts that are already set by the team that cant afford them.” Blazer had as good a chance as making playoffs as Jazz did when they traded Wallace, but they were looking ahead and ended up getting Lillard.
Jazz FO looks backwards: “we beat Cavs?! Keep Al and Millsap”
I think we should fire Corbin, trade all of our vets for chips and draft picks, only play Alec Burks on the floor- no really, just Alec Burks, throwing away our entire season, and then buy the time machine on Napoleon Dynamite to go back in time and offer Jefferson, Millsap, Hayward, Malone and Stockton’s retired jerseys, and a bottle of coke for rights to draft Lillard. Then make “Nick knows all” as head coach of the jazz because, well, he knows all, and then put Omar as the jazz GM…….
Hahahahahahahaha, you know, I love reading a lot of posts on this forum, and I love you guys a lot, but the thought that most commonly comes to my mind when reading them is always- I’m glad none of us (including me) have any power whatsoever to make any decisions for the jazz organization.
Yeah, the jazz are not perfect, they have a lot of work to do before they get to a championship, and at times I agree with some of your assessments. But some of your comments, hahahaha. They’re hilarious.
Hahaha @Ben, Im gonna assume you were writing and proofreading while I post my last comment….
So ill just point you to it and just add thatI we are not talking about the past we are talking about the future.
You know…”those that forget the past…”
Ben lets make this simple:
Should Jazz trade Al
Should Jazz resign Al
Should Jazz trade Millsap
Should jazz resign Millsap
Should we let them walk
This is pretty simple actually, so just be honest and say the problem you have with what is being said is actually a personal problem, not with what is being suggested, but name making the comment.
How bout we just burn down ESA in protest of FO’s lack of activity?
….and William of Ockham weeps……
What about Goran Dragic?
I would hate to play KOC in a game of Monopoly, that game would last forever.
Man this blows. I thought this was a fan site where you could jump on here and discuss things like……”This would be cool if…..” or “I wish it was possible to….”
Instead we have a bunch of superior fans who are clearly better than everyone else. Instead of making comments that add to the discussion and make it fun, their entire intent is to make you feel stupid and foolish for discussing your passion of your team. They throw in absurd exaggerations that are supposed to represent what others are saying, when in reality no one even came close to saying what they are being accused of. You guys are something else ya know that?
No one on here legitimately thinks they could do better than the professionals in the FO. They just get frustrated by a few key decisions that seem to snowball and affect other aspects of the structure of the team. No, we probably couldn’t do better. No, we don’t know all the details. But why should we have to have a disclaimer before and after each of our comments just to satisfy your pompous opinion of yourself?
Let people have a discussion. If you disagree, please say why you disagree. But you don’t have to cheap shot people on here just so you can live with yourself and sleep at night. If you don’t think a trade will work, why not just say so? If you are sick of hearing about a particular regret, why not say why you aren’t concerned? With Lillard for example: If you are sick of hearing about him, please tell us the outlook you have that makes it so you don’t really care about why we didn’t get him. That adds to the discussion as opposed to just being offensive and making this site a battleground instead of a discussion.
Rant Over.
Nick, you’re ‘Fire Corbin’ is getting lame you sound like a broken record. Check this out:
Coaching Record
Season Age Lg Tm G W L W-L% W > .500
1979-80 37 NBA CHI 82 30 52 .366 -11.0
1980-81 38 NBA CHI 82 45 37 .549 4.0
1981-82 39 NBA CHI 51 19 32 .373 -6.5
1988-89 46 NBA UTA 65 40 25 .615 7.5
Guess who? Exactly.
I think Corbin has done a good job so far of trying to grant the young players a winning culture. There’s a thin line between acheiving this and giving the young guys enough minutes to develop. So be realistic and get away from that ‘every year we can be championship contenders’ mindset because it doesn’t happen that way, every team goes through cycles (except for big market teams).
Now having said this I totally agree on the need to make an upgrade on the PG position, I think it needs to be the FO’s next objective.
All this forum is about opinions. But you know what they say about opinions. Just reading reports and articles Blazers had been watching Lillard for a log time. And remember when you say “I think” it is just an opinion. Blazers hit a home run and they probably won’t let Lillard go.One thing for sure is the Jazz FO will not contact any of us for the approval of any transactions.
@LK
Thanks for the heads up. All this time i’ve been keeping my lines clear awaiting their call.
@Kevin are you serious man? Lay off..
@Jazz Man
Serious about what? Wanting to discuss things without everyone being sarcastic and obvious? yes. It brings the whole place down.
Brilliantly said Kevin!!
I understand sprinkling sarcasm here and there and using hyperbole, but when it has nothing to do with Jazz basketball and is just personal attacks, that really does nothing for our discourse community. Just like I am sure no one would want me to post 10 post per one insult describing my personal life, what I ate for lunch, what I am wearing, what I did at work, what I did last night?! RIght?! Would you like UJ360 to become a personal blog spot that has nothing to do with the Jazz?!
Anyway, not to get into an epistemological debate, but ya of course no of us are their in the Jazz front office, but we at least an infer, deduce, interpret, and project what goes on. I mean how do historian right books about Abe Lincoln, the Roman Empire, World Wars—if none of them were there?! So it is possible to make piece things together and make a judgement.
And one last time:
I am not suggesting that the Jazz SHOULD have Lillard and the Blazers should not….what I am saying is that the Jazz COULD have gone about their business in the same way as the Blazers. So in other words, the Blazers made the decision that Wallace was not part of their future plans, so they traded him for future assets (they could not have even know they would be drafting at 6 cuz Nets could have jumped to top 3 and Blazers would have no pick) which turned out to be Lillard. My point is that Jazz FO needs to take a chance with the hopes of landing a Lillard type player rather than just let Al and Sap walk away for nothing or resign them and let 3 of the Core 4 go to another team via trade or Free Agency.
@Omar: First of all what does epistemological mean??
I am not a Blazer fan by any means but maybe it was about time they got one right. Sam Bowie, Greg Oden…
Stockton and Malone were both picked in the teens of the draft. Pretty good scouting right??
@Kevin: I accually think the fans could be of great help to the FO. But because of pride I don’t think they would listen. What would be wrong if Lindsey at a game randomly picked out a fan and asked them what there thoughts were on trades, draft, ect.. Some fans are walking dictionaries on the Jazz. Maybe if they do read these posts they could learn something.
@LK, loosely its the study of knowledge: some question are like can we ever know anything. Some people take it to the extreme and say we could be a brain in a jar, and this whole world is imagined or programmed (like the Matrix movies) so how can we know anything if we really don’t know that we exist, etc. Do we come to know from experience, or are some things know a priori.
I agree with you LK, there are great picks throughout the draft! Thats what frustrates me the most was that the Jazz didn’t even trade into the first round?! PJ3 went #27. But the point I am making is you NEED picks to make draft picks. You can have the greatest scouts in the world, but if you do not have a draft pick, you CANNOT make a pick, no matter if you know this player at #30 is the next LBJ, you need to make moves in order to get picks. That my point, Blazers hit or miss, they had an opportunity to get an extra draft pick because they traded away a player they didn’t need in Wallace. Jazz have to players that are expendable in Millsap and Al, and it would be a shame not to get potential value from future picks because FO was too conservative and didn’t take a chance, even if the pick is outside the lottery, the more picks you have the more options you have.
I agree with that last statement LK. In fact, if it was me (I know I know…….) I HONESTLY would occassionally hit up twitter or other fan sites simply to try and see it from another angle. And I think Greg Miller DID do that, as evidenced by him inviting Diana, Clint, and David to a game last season.
There’s always a hidden gem or a rose among thorns. There’s certainly a lot of useless crap that gets discussed on here, but I still like to hear most of it just so I can see where other people are coming from. I wont agree with most of it, and I might even poke fun at some of it like the Rondo discussion occuring on this same site. But even with the Rondo trade idea, i’ve read other people’s opinions on it and it actually started to somewhat help sway my opinion because I hadn’t thought of certain aspects. THAT is what’s great about allowing speculation whether you’re in agreeance or not.
Also, I too wonder what “Epistemological” means. I am intrigued.
I would agree that the Jazz cannot keep every player. I would also agree that the youth could do everything the vets are doing now. Might take a few games but it would be done. That said I don’t think it would be very smart to just let AL/Sap walk. If say AL was traded he would almost have to agree to an extention with his new team. Or they would be in the same boat. But they would have his birdrights and would stand the best chance of keeping him. That is why if Calderon was one of the players in the deal the Jazz would at least have his bird rights. Let’s say Jazz keep Sap and sign him to a 4 yr 44 mill contract. There is no way to sign AL to similar. But really he has made his big paycheck and should sign for about 4 yr 30 mill contract. By the way the Bobcats are impressed with the way Kemba is progressing. Hard to pry him away..
@Jamezz: Fire Corbin.
@ Everyone else: The point of this post is whether or not we should try to target Kemba Walker or John Wall.
Let’s try to keep the conversation relevant to the post! So I ask you again: Walker or Wall?
Bobcats could use a player like AL. But it would be hard for them to give up Kemba.
Not much offense but it looked like Nene and Oakafor (SP?)did fine on the boards. They could use AL for some offense and give up Oakafor. They like Nene too much to give him up. I don’t know if Sap would start over one of their bigs.
Whatever combination I would go after Wall.
@Nick, good argument.
I agree on going after Wall, I’ve always liked him and think he would be a great addition to the team. And also he’s currently in the worst team in the league. Either Millsap or Jefferson would help them out. I’d feel sorry for whoever was traded over there though, that team’s got long ways to go. But yes, Wall over Walker.
I love you guys. Just sayin’, online Jazz fam. We all want the same thing, except maybe Larry N., and that is, a Utah Jazz championship. It’s NOT going to happen by being conservative and that’s a huge concern, because the Jazz FO IS conservative. So I voice my opinion, as a fan, and I hope others do to, that we need to take some chances, take some risks, maybe pay a little more than we want to from time to time and really try to WIN. You have to be strategic and you have to look down the road. Losing in the playoffs is getting old. If it takes a couple losing seasons to actually make the jump to a 1-2-3 seed in the West, then why not? A continual 8th seed is the worse thing you can be for your future. No lottery chance, crappy draft pick, no chance in the playoffs, etc. Why are the Golden States and the Houstons leapfrogging us? Because they finally let go of mediocre, which caused them to be bad but also positioned them to be good in the future. They both made some trades for some great players (Harden, Bogut) and picked up great young pieces (Barnes, K. Thompson, Houston had a slew of decent 1st-rounders) and underrated playres (Asik).
Now, I know the Warriors tanked and that was disgraceful. But they jettisoned inefficient volume shooter Monta Ellis, and then with Curry and Bogut out injured, they were looking at a probable 8th seed. What perfect timing to give development time to the young guys, get another good draft pick (Barnes) and build for the future. This year we’re seeing it pay off for them and they don’t even have Bogut back yet. What I’m saying is its not the end of the world to develop your young guys. It’s actually fun and exciting and if they don’t win at first, you get better draft picks, which have good value around the league and don’t cost you much in salary.
1st question should be if Al is no longer in Utah
what type of offensive system does Corbin go with?
and then try to figure out the better fit.
Too many unknowns with Corbin though.
agree- fire corbin
@noneyadb That is an interesting question that you have posed. I think the answer is simple. Favors kills it on pick and roll defense who’s to say he wouldn’t be able to do same on offense. I’m dying to know what exactly is going on in the front office. I hope that things aren’t reaching a stalemate as they did on the night of the draft. I would really like to see the front office shake things up a bit and let Lindsey get his feet wet as our GM. A curious thing to consider is the fact that the front office has already offered Millsap an extension and to knowledge hasn’t offered Jefferson… Food for thought