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Keep the team how it is…
Posted by: Ryan Martinez on July 16th, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.At this point in the offseason, moves are pretty much made, and chances of anything changing after this point are very low. With that being said, the only downside to the roster that I see right now is that we still have a logjam of bigs with Al, Sap and Favors.
But, I think we need to just leave it alone, Al and Sap will be huge trading chips by February with their expiring contracts, and we could get a player we need at the trade deadline rather than losing one of them for draft picks, and low-performance players.
With all of that being said, there are a few different ways we could set up the lineup until the deadline.
Mo, Hayward, Marvin, Favors, Jefferson
Mo, Burks, Hayward, Favors, Jefferson
Personally, I’d like to start Burks and see how the offense runs with a backup lineup of Tinsley/Watson, Carrol, Williams, Millsap, Kanter. What do you guys think?
Replies: 22
Views: 611
22 Responses
I think the next correct domino is an Al Jefferson trade. Preferrably for future draft lottery picks or alternatively for the right player (one that would fit in with young core long-term but isn’t a financial burden).
Like you mentioned, I’m not sure a trade like that happens until the trade deadline.
Id would still try an unload Al and Watson.
The Kings just signed Brooks, so now at PG they have
Thomas
Brooks
Jimmer
Tyreke Evans
I propose a trade of Al and Watson for
T. Evans, Chuck Hayes, and future first
Kanter, Hayes
Favors, Millsap, Evans
Marvin, Murphy Carroll
Hayward, Burks
Mo, Tyreke, Tinsley
They can waive Watson.
I’m sure Ty will use different lineups in training camp, and in the pre-season to see which combinations of guys play the best together.
I think it’s highly likely that Mo Williams, and Gordon Hayward will start in the backcourt, with Burks probably playing a combo guard role off the bench. I’m pretty sure Marvin will start at small forward, and Big Al at center.
The big question in my mind is what will happen at power forward if Millsap complains about a backup role like he did at the beginning of last season? If you remember, Corbin pulled Favors from the starting lineup after a couple games. If Millsap is hell bent on starting (which I’m certain he will be), I guess the Jazz could go with a lineup of Mo, Gordon, Paul, Derrick, and Al with Marvin Williams seeing significant minutes off the bench, alongside Burks.
The only other alternatives would be to trade Jefferson, start Favors at center, and Paul at the four spot, or trade Millsap, start Al at center, and Favors at the power forward. If only Millsap had a better attitude about coming off the bench…
We still need a 2nd PG. Though we’re stuck with them on our roster, Tinsley and Watson are not NBA-level players, period.
I don’t remember Sap complaining about not starting. The first couple of games Favors did not do so well. But I will say if AL is not moved Sap may not have a choice as to when he will play. He will still be a force and have a lot to do with the outcome of the game. If Iggy is traded to the Jazz he would start over Hayward. Having a strong first and second unit is a great problem to have.Tinsley and Watson will be fine..
I would love to see the lineup as Mo Williams, G-Time, Ma Williams, Favors, Al. That is one long lineup with all good defenders except for AL, maybe they could make up for Al deficiencies.
Omar. Its ridiculous to put Reke as the backup at any spot on our team. He would far and away be the best player we have. Good luck getting him to take the bench. He is a about 4 times better than Hayward right now. He would start at SG or SF for sure.
@JRN, 4x better, no way!! Hayward is superior spot up shooter. Hayward is bigger longer and a better defender. Overall, Hayward is a better player. I would actually want to start Tyreke over Mo, but im not sure Mos ego could haddle it. Tyreke didnt like playing SF and wants to play PG.
Holy crap I am just gonna pretend like you didnt say that. Hayward is grossly overrated on this site. He is an above average player right now at best. He has plenty of potential and I expect him to improve but no way is he in the same conversation as Tyreke evans as a player right now. He was the 4th maybe 5th best on our team last year after Al, Paul, Devin, and sometimes Derrick. I watched those Evan Turner tapes like I said I would and Hayward is only the 7th best player from his draft class right now. Granted its turned out to have been a great draft but still. I think a lot of people on here think he is Larry Bird. He wouldnt start on many teams at either the SF or SG position. He has the potential to be an All star and I think he will at least get close to that. But better than Tyreke Evans? No.
@JRN So has Tyreke ever been on the Select Team? The team where EVERYONE there said Gordon was the best player on the Select Team? That team that included some of those people from his draft class you are rating above him. Have you thought that maybe the Jazz are suppressing their players skills by playing a system for 1 player instead of the rest of the team? Have you wondered why the Kings have not even sniffed the playoffs since he was there? If he is 4 times better then Hayward would they not have made the playoffs? I do not even think Lebron is 4 times better then Hayward. What does Tyreke have that is 4 times better then Hayward? Cause the only thing he is better at then him is taking the ball off the dribble. So what makes him 4 times better? Is it the 20% from behind the arc??
Dallan first of all I don’t think Tyreke is even eligable to go to the select team because he is to old and Tyreke was the rookie of the year. Although I do believe that they are in the same area of talent right now and in the future Hayward will be way better. Saying that he is 4 times better is not correct.
How is trading Watson to the Kings going to help their logjam at PG? Pretty sure they wouldnt take Watson in that trade
Oooooooooh the prestigious select team. The same one that didnt invite Greg Monroe even though he would be a top 3 or 4 player on the roster. Hayward cannot control a game like Evans can. Yeah 4 times better is an exaggeration but he is definitely better. Evans has the ability to score when he wants to. Hayward does not have that ability yet. Evans carries much more responsibility on his team than Hayward has ever needed to. There arent many players in the league that you could swap out for Evans and they are a playoff team. Maybe Lebron and KD. Hayward instead of Evans and they are probably worse. He is a whole class of player ahead of Hayward right now. Please ask anybody who is not biased about this. I am positive they will agree with me.
Whats our system Dallan? Please explain it to me… I was pretty sure they still ran the Flex offense. But the flex has been great with Millsap and probably maximized his skill. Where exactly do you guys rank Hayward on best players in the league top 50? Because I could use a real good laugh. He is a decent player right now that has a lot of potential for the future. But he is not a better player right now than Tyreke Evans or 75% of the other regular starters in the league.
According to Mysynergysports.com Al was on the floor for 1281 offensive plays this year. Only 6% were iso plays and 48% were post ups. That may sound like a lot he ranked only number 18 in post up plays last year. For a team that runs every play through him in the post we were still outdone by 18 other players. Also his P&R Defense when covering the roll man wasnt as bad as y’all say. It did not pass the eye test very well but stats show he forced 0.91 points per play on 43% shooting. Not pps but points per play(sequence ending in FGA,TO, or FTA). That is pretty good. To show how good it is Favors only forced 0.92 ppp on 41%. That is the same as Al. Now before Dallan gets his laced pink panties in bundle I will fully support that Favors is the MUCH better defender but eye tests need to compromise at some point with statistics. I am not saying we keep Al over Favors either. I am just pointing out that Dallan has been a big puss over this whole defense thing.
To clarify a little bit. The kings are terrible and only Lebron and KD could take them to the playoffs. Not that I put Reke in their class of player.
You still have not been able to tell me why Al offensive numbers are so low I referred to. I do not give a crap what synergy says. You just said the eye test had to be taken into account right?? So if you watch the game you would see when Al gets the ball in the post and sits there and holds the ball like he does that is an ISO. Is he posting up while doing that? Yes but the Iso they are counting is when he is face up on the basket. As you put it 48% of the time he is posting. So 45% of the Post Iso they are not counting.
We run the Flex a tiny bit but even when Josh Howard came to the team he asked if we ran the flex and they told him to like we used to we run it on occasion.
Also don’t the Kings have Cousins as well who you rank so much ahead of Hayward? So they have these GREAT players but can not make the playoffs?? The ball got taken out of Evans hands this year because he could not do better at running the team then a rookie so do not say he has more responsibility.
JRN: Tyreke Evans and Hayward are different types of players, comparing them is like comparing Apples and Oranges. As much as you like to think Hayward is only the 4th or 5th best player in the team and you think others in this site overrate him, and maybe they do, I can’t help but think you underrate what he brings to the team.
Tyreke Evans is a good player, that I agree with, but he he’s an individualist type player, whereas Hayward is a team player. Hayward will sacrifice his play if it helps the team, you will never have a Tyreke Evans type of player that will do that. If you are looking at the scoring potential of players throughout the team and you are suggesting that Hayward is only 4th or 5th best then I could agree with you but that overlooks what he brings to the team in other ways, his defense, his energy, his knack of stealing the ball and getting an easy basket that gives his team an easy 2 points and his teammates some rest bite. He’s a more rounded player than many of his teammates. Is he a bonafide star yet? No. But is allowed to be within the current Jazz system?
If the play was more evenly distributed and didn’t go through Al so much then I’m also confident Hayward would score more. The fact is he has to play within himself because of the style that the Jazz play. The playing style of the Jazz last season would have lead to a frustrated Tyreke Evans.
It would be ridiculous to think that Tyreke Evans would walk into the team and instantly be the best player on the team. That overlooks the fact that he has this tendency to do what is good for Evans and not good for the Kings. You forget he was seen as the future of that franchise not too long ago, and now he’s been talked about as tradable. He would need to come here with an attitude that he can be mouldable into what this franchise needs from him. And what this needs from him would be some added discipline to his game to do what is good for the Jazz as well as him. That will take time, the Kings have never been a team that asks for too much discipline in recent years and that has affected the success of the franchise and hindered the development of their players, Evans included.
Hayward and Cousins arent great yet. Youre the one that thinks that Dallan. I wouldnt say that Tyreke is great either. He is really good. Cousins might fit there as well. Hayward not yet. He is above average. He has time though. I am not like Jazzman or whoever hates him. He just isnt a guy that we can run our offense through yet. Yes Reke does have more responsibility. He is expected to be the top 2 in scoring every night for the Kings. Hayward is not expected to be in the top 4 even. If he was he would be a disappointment so far. If any NBA GM had the opportunity to build a team around Evans or Hayward who would be the pick? Probably the guy that was being discussed in trade rumors with Rajon Rondo. Hayward doesnt have that kind of pull.
I dont give a crap what YOU say. You obviously arent some prodigious basketball mind or you wouldnt be on this site. Same goes for all of us. Synergy sports is operated by the NBA. So they are the real deal. The eye test needs to compromise with Stats. I personally consider stats more than the eye test because of Bias but I factor in both probably 65-35. I am not saying that stat makes Al a good defender. But you sound like a conspiracy theorist when you talk about his D. Its borderline psychopathic.
JRN you are a moron. The “eye test?” you are referring to is called watching a game and being able to see what happens when Al plays a pick and roll. You can keep throwing bull !@#$% stats out there all you want, they don’t matter. When you learn to watch a game, and take something away from it, instead of reading mygayassstatsthatdontmatter.com for all your analysis let me know. Until then let the people who know a little about how basketball works do the talking. Al’s defense is imo the #1 problem for the Jazz. Until they ditch his lazy ass they will never be able to win a playoff series.
He was not expected to be the number two option. Thornton was 1, Cousins was 2 and then you have Evans when he was healthy. I will guarantee you that 75% of GM would take Hayward over Evans. Everyone to ever talk about him says how great he will be. That includes former players,current players,coaches,GM’s and tons of media.
If you put so much on the eye test how in the heck did you say Al is a top 15 player? You must be blind
Like Al going on an 8-0 4th quarter run by himself against Phoenix in a must win to make the playoffs? Coming away from almost every game leading the team in Points, Rbs, and Blocks also helps. And How many clutch buckets did he get for us? I took away that he alone has the ability to put the Jazz on his back in crunch time. I know how to watch a game. And I obviously know infinitely more about basketball than you do if you think Al’s P&R defense was our biggest problem. Teams only ran it against us 9% of the time last year. We were 27th in 3 point shooting though. That was closer to being our biggest problem.
Oh ya the cluth time when his great shooting percentage goes from an average 49% to an even worse 43% SO CLUTCH!!