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Foye and Burks
Posted by: Steve on November 15th, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.While i know Burks in not a PG, i don’t think a PG is necessary with the 2nd unit. We saw last night, boston played Courtney Lee and Barbosa together… No PG there, barbosa is nothing but a scorer. The spurs have Ginobli and Neal… No PG there either, and those teams seems to be just fine. So why can they play those guys together and we can’t play foye and burks together?
Back in the day, you needed a PG cuz he was the only that could dribble and pass; you needed a SG cuz he was the only one that could shoot; a SF was an athlete that could do a little bit of everything; your PF & C were either your primary post scorer or your defensive rebounder.
Everyone needs to let go of the idea of “positions”. Mo is a PG, but would anyone consider him a typical pass first PG? I don’t and thats ok. Same thing with guys like Jimmer and Russell Westbrook. In todays game, positions are so interchangable because everyone is so talented and skilled. Last year James Harden, a SG, was basically OKC’s backup PG, cuz he had the ball primarily in his hands and made plays for everyone around him. Look at Marvin this year, a 6′9 small forward, he can handle the ball, shoot the 3, defend the post, rebound, in the Laker he even guarded kobe… these guys should not be limited to “positions” but rather the focus should be on utilizing their skills and talents.
My big thing is put your best players on the floor and and put them in position to succeed. Would anyone say that tinsley is better than foye or burks? Don’t think so. So why is he getting the minutes over burks?
Replies: 17
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17 Responses
Tinsley (and Kanter) are really scuffling right now in their minutes on the floor. I like the idea of trying a combination of Foye and Burks together in the backcourt.
However, when looking at the bigger picture, I’m not so sure that Burks fits into Utah’s long term plans. Gordon Hayward has really settled into the starting shooting guard role, where he can use his height to his advantage. Randy Foye is a great addition, and a perfect fit for a backup shooting guard role. He is a solid spot up shooter, and the Jazz need a consistent outside shooting threat to compliment the “bigs” inside. Burks is athletic, and more of a slasher, and driver, and is capable of drawing fouls and going to the line (similar to Ronnie Brewer in some respects). Both have different skills, but in my opinion, consistent outside shooting is a more valuable commodity overall. At some pointin the fairly near future, the Jazz will need to make a decision between Foye and Burks. Neither Foye or Burks is capable of full time minutes at point guard or small forward. Another thing going against Burks is the addition of Marvin Williams (because that means the Jazz will be less likely to play Hayward significant minutes at small forward).
How much money are the Jazz going to be willing to pay Burks on his next contract to stick around as the “backup” shooting guard to Gordon Hayward(assuming they decide not to resign Foye)?
As of today, I think Burks long term future with the Jazz is precarious at best.
@Jason I agree withvmost of your response except Im not sure how consistent foye is as a shooter. I also think Kanter is suffering from a lack of confidence being shown by the coach.
I continue to question corbin’s decisions as long as he says one thing (players earning minutes) and does another
Well in Corbn’s mind you ‘earn minutes’ by being a veteran. Perhaps someone should tell him we dont have rookie scrubs, but instead they are all lottery picks with great potential, probably much higher than the veteran’s if he would just play them to tap into it a and develop it.
Kanter hasn’t had a bad game at home yet. I think that’s where I’d like to see Burks and Kanter get more minutes–at home. Build their confidence with time on the court during home games. Especially against weaker teams.
Actually, from the players in the rotation, only Tinsley (20%?!) is shooting a worse percentage than Foye (39%). Foye is more accuratly a “streak” shooter, meaning, very hot or very cold. He is not consistently a good shooter, but he is consistently a bad defender for the SG position.
Kanter actually leads the team in FG % at 57%, about 10% better than Al; but of course we wouldnt know that cuz of the “earned minutes” Al gets. Most of Kanters fouls are not against post players, which tells me most times Tinsley and Foye cant keep their man in front of them and Kanter has to come over.
Why Burks gets no minutes is beyond compression?! Corbin has no balls to cut vets minutes or Corbin is just plain ole stupid, OR maybe a combination of the two.
I guess my point was that Foye is a “threat” from the outside, and teams will feel the need to guard him on the perimeter. When Burks is in the game, teams just drop way off him, and double team the post. I agree that Foye is a streak shooter.
I’m tired of people blaming Corbin for Kanter’s shortcomings. Enes hasn’t even been rebounding very well lately, and that was always his chief strength in the past. He seems out of position, and is also fouling way too much. These things aren’t Corbin’s fault. If your going to blame Corbin for how Kanter has played during the regular season, then by that logic, he deserves heaps of praise for how well Enes played in the pre-season. So which is it? You can’t have it both ways.
@omar … sure foye is shooting 39% from the field, but he’s shooting 44% from 3!!! I’ll take 44% from 3 over 39% percent from the field any day. Especially with him taking 4-5 3’s per game. So he definitely is NOT a streak shooter. Purely off jumpshots Foye is the best or right there with Mo and Hayward. And he’s a bad defender? Are we watching the same guy? He’s actually a pretty solid defender.
From what I have seen, I would say that Foye is a slightly below average defender.
Foye’s a decent defender of the shot, but I’ve seen him get blown by a few times and a few times get posted up by a taller player, so those would be his defensive deficiencies. But he’s done so well from the three-point line, amazingly good when the pressure’s on towards the end of games. He’s singlehandedly kept us in games we probably would have lost at the end. Go watch him at the end of the Lakers. Three times in a row the Lakers cut the lead to five. Three times in a row Foye hits a three to put us back up. I love his shooting and I’m not sure we’d get that late game confidence and shooting threat out of Burks to be honest.
Wait, I think you guys are missing my point:
A) Foye is a streak shooter (not necessarily from 3, but overall), he shot an air ball off the dribble, and had an 0-7 game, so you cannot say he is a pure shooter. And the reason he has a great 3 point shooting percentage is cuz he has gotten on FIRE, which is great. What I am saying is he cannot be the go-to guy on the second unit, he has no ability to create his own shot. I want Foye in the rotation, I just don’t want Corbin using Foye as our Harden in OKC, Ginobili, Jason Terry with Mavs–all those guys are great with the ball in their hands and Foye is not, he really doesn’t have a mid-range game either. He is what I say he is: a specialist, and that what he should do.
B) Have you been watching the last two games especially???! The Raptors ran everything through the guy Foye was guarding. Which is my second point not being understood: Foye CANNOT guard the SG position, he pretty bad at actually. Late in games Corbin has been going with Foye and Mo backcourt, which does give us a 3 point threat, BUT on the other end Foye gets overmatched. He is too small and too slow to guard the SG position. I have league pass so road games I have to watch the opposing teams telecast. And Toronto and Boston commentators and reports all talk about attack the “smaller” Foye on the offensive end. The game plan was to attack Foye–and did you see how Green absolutely (like DeRozen) abused Foye?! Don’t just watch the end result of the play, watch Foye get posted-up or blow right by. Al getting dunked was the result but not the primary cause. And thats just one play. If Toronto and Boston commentators can figure that out and call it, I am sure opposing coaches will also. In the fourth quarter I do not want Foye guarding J Crawford, Ginobili, Bryant, that’s too easy. Just look at the Toronto and Boston games, once Hayward re-entered the game DeRozen had nothing and Boston had to work for shots.
C) Which brings me to the point I am making. Foye should not play the SG position at unless the opposing team goes small. So if Foye is in the game (which I do want) he needs to be in there with Hayward and Burks. The D combo of Tinsley and Foye is the equivalent of Millsap and Al D combo. Not good. Tinsley cannot guard a broom, and Foye is guarding OUTSIDE his position, which is why Kanter is fouling so much, not while guarding the post but trying to stop guards that have blown by Tinsley or overmatched Foye. How do we solve this problem Mr. Corbin…..by PLAYING BURKS!!! Geez, this is not complicated at all. Foye plays the SG on offense and guards the smaller PG on defense, Burks the inverse. Problem solved. And Tinsley the worst shooter and worst defender is off the court.
And Kanter shooting pretty damn good. He just needs more playing time.
@ Jason
“I’m tired of people blaming Corbin for Kanter’s shortcomings. Enes hasn’t even been rebounding very well lately, and that was always his chief strength in the past. He seems out of position, and is also fouling way too much. These things aren’t Corbin’s fault. If your going to blame Corbin for how Kanter has played during the regular season, then by that logic, he deserves heaps of praise for how well Enes played in the pre-season. So which is it? You can’t have it both ways.”
Regular season vs Preseason is no comparison so YES you can have it both ways, similar to playoffs and regular season are no comparison.
We can blame Corbin for how the team is playing because Corbin is the Teacher if players are out of position or not running the plays correctly or at all, its because the Teacher has not taught them.
And who has been down on Kanter? Majority of posts or response in this forum is down on player rotation. Coaching…
What is Al giving us that everyone on here is saying Kanter is not giving us? Offense? With his 45% shooting? Defense? Rebounding? His rebounds are high but he stood around many times while people were grabbing rebounds around him. All of Kanter issues could be solved with more playing time and confidence!! This is not a veteran we are talking about he is TWENTY!! He is still a rookie with the number of games he has played!
If Kanter doesn’t produce at a higher clip in the 10-15 minutes per night he does get, why in the world should he deserve even more time on the floor?
Apparently, Coach Corbin shares my sentiments.
You obviously do not understand the mentality of players. Why did Paul Millsap get put back in the starting lineup last year?? Not cause Favors was bad it was because MILLSAP was bad! He shot 17-40 in the first three games! That is 42% so it does matter minutes and starting! Consistent minutes and a role you get a consistent performance! If you do not know if your getting 2 or 5 minutes you tend to push to hard.
My 1st quarter was the prime example tonight. No defense or rebounding from Al so once again what does he give us Kanter would not? And for that matter with increased minutes to Favors he gives you more points,rebounds and he sure as heck gives you better defense!
@jason Kanter played well with big mins in preseason. Kanter plays average with bugger all mins. I can give Corbin a pat on the back for Kanters preseason mins and than say he’s a fool for not continuing those minutes.
@dallan i agree completely. Points, rebounds, block, steals, free throw attempts, EFFORT!!!! I am so sick of Jefferson’s head shaking everytime the opposition scores, whether on him or not. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and start trying to play defense.
And Kanter makes mistakes because he tries TOO HARD. I will gladly accept those mistakes, rather than mistakes from not trying hard enough.
I tweeted during the game we need to get rid of AL, then someone tweeted at me that we can’t trade AL because Locke says no other big can create his own shot. BS
@ Jason Crannell Prime example of confidence in your players: http://www.nba.com/data/html/nbacom/gameinfo/20121117/0021200130_notebook.html
D Antoni gives Metta the green light to shoot whenever he is open. Metta scores season high shooting 5/10 behind the arc.