Meet
What do you want?
Posted by: Steve on February 17th, 2013
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.There’s been a lot of different opinions regarding the 4 bigs, I’d like to just get a thread to hear people’s opinions of what they want the team to do regarding Big Al, Sap, Favors, Kanter, and whatever else regarding what you want the team to look like.
I’ll go first
I want the team to find a way to trade Al, at the very least a sign & trade for a TPE. We will never be a serious contender with Al on the team, Corbin relies on him too much, and Al doesn’t do the little things required to win night in and night out.
For the exact opposite, i want to resign Millsap. I know he isn’t the hustler he once was, but millsap has proven he can produce against NBA starters. He just works, he sets a great example for players that hard work can go a long way. So with him back in the fold, we go with a 3 man rotation between Favors, Kanter, and Sap. Although i would prefer kanter coming off the bench, i dont mind who starts because each player will get about around 30 minutes.
Replies: 34
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34 Responses
I would prefer to see all resigned Reality says it cannot be done. Payroll, future salaries, caps etc. So I think we should deal Al for young players, future or current picks, or team needs (PG/SF) depth. Can that be done, it remains to be seen. Hope we can resign Paul for a decent contract.
No matter what, we cannot deal either away for nothing or the opposite, just to make a deal. You either get some young potential, depth, or picks without taking on long term bad contracts, or you have to let them go for nothing. should not be an issue though.
We just have to remember, next season will look much different from this year.
I hope so Patrick! This season has just been out right frustrating! I Think Al is not the future at all and he irritates me. He’s not a good fit for were the jazz are headed. Trade Al for the best assets available. I would love to resign Sap if he could be content with 6th man role with heavy mins! Trading Sap and not Al would make me lose interest more than I already have this season. I dont need the stress of Jazz possibly resigning Al in the off season! Either trade both or just Al.
Trade Al, let Sap walk if he wants more than 12 a season. Re-sign Foye, let Mo walk, get Murphy into the rotation next year
I would love to see the team turned over to the future …especially if trading Millsap for Bledsoe is part of the future… either way, I would be happy to part with both Millsap and Jefferson, but I doubt it will happen … I want to see Burks, Hayward, DMC, Favors, Kanter, Evans, Foye plus a couple rookies, a couple role player signings…
It would be ideal to trade one now (Millsap) for something like Bledsoe. The other expiring contract (Al, Mo) for a sign and trade in the offseason, a couple future first rounders maybe..13-15mm in trade exception would be epic… The Jazz would arguably be just as good as they are now, and have the space and TPE to absorb any contract in the league. Inevitably there will be some big PG contracts that teams just want to write off because the team is headed nowhere… The Jazz could sit back all season and wait for the right deal to come along, while hopefully fighting for a playoff spot.
It seems to me like the front office has a little different plan in mind. I think they will re-sign Jefferson, and Mo. The more I think about it, why wouldn’t they do that? So many fans are freaking out like the Jazz will lose them for nothing, and that the four youngsters are pining to get out of here.. I don’t think the FO sees it that way. Favors, Hayward, Kanter, and Burks will be free agents, but resricted, so they stay, probably for four years. They could take the Ben Gordon route of accepting the Bulls qualifying offer and playing out his one year there, which paid off huge when he signed a ridiculous contract with the Pistons. In that case, Favors and Hayward would be on the team for two seasons after this, Burks and Kanter three…thats the minimum, more than likely it will be five and six more years before they become unrestricted free agents… Five years is a long time in the NBA, they are all on the team for a while, their roles will change over five and six years, hopefully soon. I think the front office will re-sign Jefferson for four or five years this offseason… DeMarre Carroll must be re-signed, I’ll be upset if he isn’t.
Trade Paul, Resign Al if he will take small paycut. By two years from know Kanter and Favors will fully have the reigns to the team with Bledsoe (I hope), Burks, Hayward in the backcourt.
Steve THANK YOU for finally asking that question, but I have to include you in my follow up question…
Who does everyone realistically want in place of Jefferson to maintain depth at Center? Do you guys think that Kanter, Favors and Evans provide enough depth to compete for a championship? Did everyone forget how long it took us to finally get some depth at this position?
I would say that it is unanimous that everyone agrees we would all like to get a young star PG going into the future, but how are we going to get better by getting rid of our 2 leading scorers and replacing them with some of the best bench depth in the league? A starting lineup of let’s say Bledsoe, Burks, Hayward, Favors, Kanter would be fun to watch but how would they stack up against elite teams and who besides Carroll and Evans do you forsee coming off the bench?
Al has had his big payday. If he would resign for around eight mill a season it would be OK.. But for a offensive Center with his numbers he would be offered much more by another team. We have to keep in mind anyone traded by the deadline will almost have to have a extended contract much like Harden did when he got traded. So if AL gets traded he will probably sign for at least 12-3 mill. I think Jazz will resign Sap..Love to see some kind of a trade though.
Kory, a rotation of Favors, kanter and evans will not complete for a championship, not even close. With time and experience, maybe in a couple years but i think we need another player, my hope is millsap, or someone like Robin Lopez or Marcin Gortat or Nikola Pekovic would be good.
One of our draft picks will be a big. My hope is that we can land Mason Plumlee, or Patrick Young who i think will be a stud, love watching that guy.
What do I want? A championship contender!
With that as the goal, we already know that Al is not a cornerstone of a championship contender. I want him gone! Trade, FA, whatever, just gone! The style of play is painful to watch when he’s on the floor. I don’t watch the Jazz on TV anymore and have sold off more games than I’ve attended this year.
If Paul is willing to be a bench player I’d love to keep him. He’s better than most backup PF, but in the bottom half of starters. He’s an asset off the bench & a liability in the starting lineup.
Without Al, there’s a small chance we would start using Marvin for his strengths (elbow jumpers, motion offense, etc.)rather than just having him take up space on offense. His D has been helpful.
Between expiring contracts and draft picks, there should be enough assets to acquire a PG to help take this team to the next level.
The Core 4 keep looking better all the time. I know they’ll take some lumps, but if they’d gotten starters minutes all season I believe we’d have about the same record at this point of the season. In general, the Jazz beat lousy teams, lose to good teams, win 70+% at home and lose 60+% on the road. How much would that have changed if the minute distribution between the vets & kids was reversed? Two or three games maybe….
Nah….I don’t want much
Why rush Kanter into the spotlight right now? We need to trade 1 big and I think only 1. I have a preference but I will take either. We have 2 all star caliber big men. Why get rid of both prematurely??
I’m sorry, but all this talk about Millsap “hustling” and “working hard” is becoming abnoxious. “Hard work” isn’t enough in this league to win a championship. You have to have the talent and ability to outmatch your opponent every night. Millsap does not do that. He has great games like every good player can have, but he’s by no means a guy who can ever take the eam on his back and win games. Millsap is good because he doesn’t have to be guarded by the other teams best big who guards Al. Boozer did the same thing for him. If anyone thinks Millsap actually should be paid 10-12 million a year and that he is a piece that your team can use to take you to the top, you’re too satisfied with mediocrity because he isn’t’ that guy. A great piece to have, yes, but not to start and not to pay 12 million a year to.
Yeah, Al takes a lot of iso shots…….every best player on every team has to be an iso player at times. They all get their shots to take, even the inefficient ones, but guess what? You need those guys to win championships. I’m not saying Al is that guy, but he is one of the best clutch shooters in the game (look at stats, when there’s 5-6 min left and the game is close, not many compare), and if we didn’t have Al, we would have to have another guy take iso shots when needed. You guys think that a perfect team holds hands and passes the ball to very player twice and sings kumbaya together before a shot is taken? Every team needs a go-to guy who can get a shot off. Al may not be the guy for us, but make no mistake- if he goes, we’ll need someone to fill that void. Every contending team has at least two “iso” players who take a lot of shots.
And because guys who can do that and make the shots when they count consistently are rare, don’t hold your breath in Al getting traded. And if the jazz can get another star-type offensive player to pair with Al……gasp! This team may just get over the hump of mediocrity.
Steve, I’m not interested in Plumlee but as I mentioned in another post I would really like to add either Poythress, Young or Mitchell after picking up Trey Burke.
IF we were able to swap Millsap for Bledsoe and possibly work another trade involving Jefferson, (maybe Gortat and W Johnson from Phoenix) the following lineup would be fun to watch…
Bledsoe / Mo Williams / T Burke (draft)
Burks / Foye / Murphy
Hayward / Carroll / W Johnson (Phoenix)
Favors / Poythress, Mitchell or Young (draft) / Evans
Kanter / Gortat (Phoenix)
Ben you brought up a great point. Fans like Marty complain about watching AL’s style of play as painful, but San Antonio fans haven’t complained about similar play for years from T Duncan. That’s probably why San Antonio has interest in Al, to continue that style of play after he retires. Al makes 10-15 foot jumpers look easy and is pretty damn good at going one on one. The difference between he and Duncan is Duncan played with and practiced against David Robinson early in his career and has had Tony Parker to get the rest of the team involved. Oh yeah, let’s not forget Manu Ginobli. Perennial AllStar cast, no big deal. Duncan obviously has some talent to pass it off to which he does well while accumulating his own stats. He also finds a way to get to the line and block shots on the other end. Maybe we just need to trade for Popovich or surround Al with modern day Parker’s and Ginobli’s. Al isn’t as terrible as most Utah fans proclaim with regularity. I’m just irritated that you can’t force a guy that makes that much freaking money play on both ends of the court like Duncan.
Here is what you need to look at for the coming yrs, when deciding what your going to do now.
13-14 Salaries
Ma Williams 7.5 mil
Favors 6.0 mil
Kanter 4.5 mil
Hayward 3.4 mil
Burks 2.2 mil
Evans 1.6 mil
Murphey Under mil
total 26.2 mil
Millsap 10 mill
Jefferson 14 mill
50 mill
14-15 Salaries
Favors 7.8 mill Qualifying offer, sure to go higher
Kanter 5.6 mil
Hayward 4.6 mil Qualifying offer, sure to go higher
Burks 3.0 mil
Evans 1.1 mil Qualifying offer
total 22 mill
Millsap 10 mill
Jefferson 14 mill
46 mill
15-16 Salaries
Favors 12 + mill?
Kanter 7.4 mill qualifying offer, sure to go higher.
Hayward 12 + mill?
Burks 4.1 mil Qualifying offer, sure to go higher.
total 35 mill
Millsap 10 Mill
Jefferson 14 mill
59 mill +
If Kanter and Favors are not the future, then we need to get rid of them right, while they still have value? Looking above, you can see how things are going to go in the near future, and thats eventually 1/3rd of the teams salary. We cannot afford to keep everyone and you can see why. It doesnt matter who you keep, but you cannot let everyone walk away for nothing. We have a basket full of assets, and we need to keep it like that.
Mo 8 mil?
Randy 3.5 mil?
Carrol 3.5 mil?
Sap 10 mil?
Jefferson 14 mil?
They are all estimates. There are some hard decisions to come in the future, but to think we will look like the same team next season, your nuts. Even if we resign some of the above, thats not bad, because we can trade them if they are signed for a solid price. its all about keeping flexible for the future.
Jefferson needs to be traded because he does hold value in the league, and re-signing him in the offseason would not be in the best interest of this franchise. So we might as well get some value for him.
Millsap will probably not be a part of this team past May because he will want more money than would be wise for us to pay him, he’ll want a longer contract than we’d be wise to offer him, and he wouldn’t be willing to come off the bench, which is what we would want him to do sooner than later.
So if we’re thinking long term and for the good of this franchise going forward… trade both. Get as much value for the two as we can now.
I do not want any trades to happen. Let our season play out and find out this off season what we are dealing with. If we trade big al, then who is our scorer? If we trade Millsap, who is our leader? It’s a lose lose situation unless we bring in an all star caliber player. Remember Al is showing Kanter the ropes and Favors just needs a little work on the offensive side. We are in a good situation. The players that need time is Hayward and Burkes/Carrol. I personally think we should sign Mo and Foye and stop playing marvin so much. I dunno thats just my opinion. It all starts with our coaching bringing a winning mindset especially on the road. Until we figure out how to compete on the road it doesnt matter who is on our team.
@Ben I agree with you on every point except Al. All this talk about Al being a clutch shooter is a load of crap. Where was Al in the last 9 minutes of the Bulls game, nowhere, the victory over the Spurs, nowhere. The clutch shooter is Hayward, he showed in the Heat game that when it comes to scoring in the final minutes he is the man. He has also hit two other game winners this season from memory. Al is an inefficient scorer who makes for an inefficient team.
Thanks disco.
Good teams do need a ‘closer’. Where was Al at the end of the Bulls game? Double-teamed, fronted, with Noah playing some monster D. We couldn’t even get him the ball! Granted, inferior guard play is part of the equation, but most ‘closers’ (Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Manu, Rose, etc) are wings who can handle the rock and create a decent shot for themselves. How many low-post players in today’s NBA are their team’s closer?
Gordon has shown enough in the closer role to be given a chance at it. He’s missed a few, sure—but who hasn’t?
@Kory
I’m sorry you disagree about the entertainment factor of the team. If I’m going to commit the time and my entertainment dollars to the team, I want to watch a game where I don’t find myself nodding off during the third quarter! There are alot of entertainment options available in today’s world, and based on recent attendance at Jazz games; their appeal is slipping–so I must not be the only one.
Duncan & Al is not a fair comparison. Watching Duncan play is like watching Greg Maddux of the 90s. He’s a technician at work, always step ahead of the defense. When he makes a pass, it quite often puts his team in a fantastic position to score. When Al passes, it seldom puts the Jazz in a better position to score; and quite often, you just pray the pass finds a teammate instead of an opponent. As far as defense….we’ll just leave that alone. The only comparison is low-post offensive moves. Watching Duncan you feel like he is in control of the situation, and something good is going to happen. With Al, it’s not the same feeling. Instead of expecting something good to happen, you’re hoping something good will happen.
Couple things Kory haha
your statement about fans not complain about duncans play is pretty ludicrous… 3 rings haha i understand what your saying about him playing with parker and ginobli, but Duncan’s a complete player and Al is solely an offensive guy. And he didn’t become so good simply by playing alongside robinson. He was labeled the best prepared player coming out of college in years. Your comparing Tom Brady to Tony romo haha
Also, I like the roster you put together with the trade to pheonix, im not sure how i feel about wes johnson, i haven’t seen enough of to give a fair opinion. But one question, where is Marvin williams? I don’t think he goes anywhere. I also don’t think we completely turn the starting lineup over to the C4, simply because Corbin is still the coach.
I agree on both points Marty. its pathetic seeing all of the empty seats at games. i think fans are frustrated, and its not because of one particular player. But i will say this, something ive noticed being in attendance and watching games on tv, there is an obvious difference when the young guys are on the floor, both in the energy they play with and the atmosphere in the arena, and ill leave it at that haha
And again comparing Al & Duncan, the only fair comparison you can make with Duncan is offensive skill. Duncan is far out of Jeffersons league, because he understands “the game” where as jefferson understands “how to beat you 1 on 1″
GOOD posts. I would like to see Al leave mainly to free up his salary. Millsap would nice to keep if he would agree to be a sixth man. Getting a Trey Burke in the draft and maybe keeping Mo for another three years, releasing Tinsley and Watson, would be good IMGO. We need a SF who can really score, probably through the draft (risky I know). Resign the C4 for sure.
I have heard it all comparing DUNCAN to JEFFERSON. LMAO HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA that’s a good one.
Most games are only close because Jefferson misses over 50% of his shots, and doesn’t go to the free throw line. If Jefferson went to the line and added 10 points a night nobody would have a problem with Big AL.
Send Jefferson for Bledsoe and Jordan
Keep Millsap.
Its easier to find a bench C and bench PF than a starting caliber PG. We have depth behind the future of Kanter (already commands a double, triple team) and Favors. We need to get into a position to get a starting PG of the future:
Watson is worth nothing.
Bell is….N/A
outside of C4, Al and Millsap are the only players that are expendable and have trade value. Its a no brainer they are the only players teams are realistically asking for.
Jazz need picks at least so they can package them to draft best PG available, or package to pick up a young PG already under contract. Thats it.
Jazz need a starting PG. C4 are untouchable, so its Al amd/or Millsap. If Jazz get two good deals, that could set the Jazz up for the next 4 to 6 years. Id trade both and get as much as possible: i prefer picks actually cuz Jazz can pick up good backup bigs in supplement or with draft picks, or FA.
Millsap is cheaper!! Dont think Blazers wont overload a Favors contract or Hayward contract. Mathews was undrafted and Sap a 2nd round, Favors and Hayward will get big offers from at least Blazer. Cant afford Al.
Hey JRN!! Were u been?
@ Marty, I couldn’t agree with you more concerning the entertainment factor. That’s why Evans should get more time on the nights the other guys decide not to play with any passion or effort (ie the Houston blowout)
@ Steve, Al might have a few rings if he would have been in Utah during the Stockton / Malone era. Jefferson hasn’t had the same supporting cast to rely on. The whole conversation concerning rings as success makes me laugh (almost as much as you were in your comments). Lebron couldn’t win alone. Jordan wouldn’t have won as many without Pippen, Rodman, Kerr and others, Kobe wouldn’t have won 5 if he too wasn’t surrounded by multiple AllStars. Don’t mistake me, I don’t think Al is comparable to Kobe and Lebron by any stretch, he just hasn’t been put in as good of situation. If he was terrible, San Antonio wouldn’t want him
@Omar
Kanter already commands a double and triple team???? Maybe when he plays against Jr Jazz players haha. I dont think I have ever seen Kanter draw a double team. He is making a lot of process but Millsap doesnt even draw double teams. Kanter does not need to be pushed into a starting role right now. And plus, Al is being a great mentor for the young bigs in every way. They both use some of his moves now.
I got sick of a few surface thinkers on here. Not much intelligence going around sometimes.
JRN, are u being serious?!
Kanters gets double AND tripled teamed!! He gets caught up in it at times and turns ball over but whay do you expect when he gets 14 minutes one game, 4 minutes the next, 5 the next. Cuz of how strong he is one on one teams usually double him. Once he learns how to pass out of it or move before DT comes, hell be more of a beast!
Somebody must not be paying attention, because Kanter gets double-teamed fairly frequently.
And NO, Al is NOT a “great mentor for the young bigs”… unless teaching them that not giving effort 3/4 of the time on defense or boxing out is ok and will not result in a decrease of minutes (obviously Corbin is also to blame for this) is what makes someone a “great mentor”.
So if you’re going to show up just to condescend to people by saying there’s “not much intelligence going around”, just be sure to include your own post in that category.
The Jazz don’t need a TPE, because they have cap space.
The Jazz don’t do a trade just to do a trade. They want potential and draft picks, not a TPE.
Jazzaholic
Kory, your crazy if you think Tim duncan and Al Jefferson are on the same level. Take out the 3 rings, MVPs, and All star appearances… Duncan is simply a better player, and its not even close
Steve, I agree that Duncan is superior to Jefferson but you are missing what I’m saying so let’s move on to a new topic
What do I want? Ok, lets go with it just for fun. Trade Al for Josh Smith, resign Sap and Randy Foye, Sign Chris Paul in the off season. Draft Trey Burks and anyone else. Let the dead weight fall off.
C Paul, Burks, Burke
Hayward, Burks, Foye
Smith, Carol, Sap, Evans
Sap, Kanter, Favors, Evans
Favors, Kanter, Evans someone else.
Not in this life time, but sounds fun.
Jazzaholic, really?
Memo… TPE
Booz… TPE
I get what your saying that they already have the cap flexibility, so a TPE isn’t necessary but the jazz like TPEs because it extends the “clock” on flexibility. I only suggest that as an “at the very least”, because its all the jazz have done previously.
Please enlighten me on the meaning of “TPE”.