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Game 14: Kings 108, Jazz 97
Posted by: TACOREV on November 25th, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.The Jazz fall apart in the second half, and drop a 108-97 decision to the Kings in Sacramento, just a night after beating them at the Solution.
Four Jazzmen scored in double figures, led by Foye’s 17 on 4-of-6 from downtown. Tinsley scored 14 on 5-of-8 shooting with seven assists, also hitting 4-of-6 from beyond the arc. Jefferson had 14 & 6, while Millsap added 13 & 8.
After big outings Friday night, Hayward and Favors each struggled Saturday. Favors went 0-for-6 for two points and four boards, while Hayward came away with eight points on 1-of-8 shooting.
Earl Watson, in his second game back, provided a spark off the bench with six points, five assists, and four steals.
Tyreke Evans again led the Kings, scoring 27 points on 9-of-17 shooting with five boards and five assists. Jason Thompson, DeMarcus Cousins, and Aaron Brooks posted double-figure scoring nights as well.
The Jazz are once again at .500, falling to 2-7 on the road.
Next up is the McNuggets on Monday night at ESA.
Jazz player of the game: Jamaal Tinsley
Replies: 41
Views: 746
41 Responses
Our worst team on the floor always has Millsap and Jefferson out there at the same time. Both are VERY weak on the defensive end. Jefferson doesn’t care and Millsap is undersized at the PF and too slow at the SF. We can’t keep putting them on the floor together. We get killed inside. Favors only having 16 minutes is a travesty and a waste of his talent even if he did have an off night.
Jazz were cry babies tonight. Everyone in the last 8 minutes complained about no calls which really hurt our transition defense.
I agree that the worst lineup seems to be anyone with Milsap and Jefferson. However am I the only one that notices Milsap complaining about calls every game. When ever he doesn’t get a call he is late to get back on defense. I love Milsap’s hard work but the more I watch the Jazz play the more I think Milsap should be the one to go. He isn’t a small forward and he isn’t big enough to play against aggressive power forwards. Favors, Kanter and Big Al should be our big men going forward.
I agreed with the above posters and also would like to add that Corbin isn’t a defensive mind coach. Foye was awarded 30 mins for jacking up far threes and couldn’t guard his man. Seriously, only 15 and 19 mins for Favors and Hayward, respectively, isn’t going to help them build experience.
Tough to pick player of the game. Tinsley also had three turnovers and how many points did his defense allow?? My pick would be Kanter..
Way too many minutes for the starters. Burks and Evans could not have been any worse..
Tonight we had no complete players and I think that’s a big problem with our team. Complete meaning they played well on offense and defense both. Jefferson was a spectator under the hoop for many plays. Foye hit threes in the first half, but did nothing except get blasted by Tyreke in the second. Hayward and Favors, our best inside and wing defenders, shot 1-13. Maybe Kanter came close, but I can’t name a single other player.
bad day…. !@#$% hapenss
Jazz give up 56 points in the paint?! Jazz let the Kings shoot over 50%?! We are not gonna win many games that way. I think Corbin fell for the fools gold, meaning this line up and rotation won games but against Wizard, Houston w no Harden, Kings at SLC. You cannot roll out that line up and expect to be successful.
Millsap and Al D combo is trash, PERIOD. I am gonna wait to judge Millsap when he gets his minutes away from Al. Jazz look slow and non-athletic. When there are only 240 minutes per team per game, and Al, Tinsley, Watson, Foye get about half the minutes, we are not going to be a good defensive team. Id say Carroll and Millsap are not that athletic either, so really those aforementioned players got about 200 minutes of the 240. We are a slow non-athletic team thereby.
Foye CANNOT guard the SG position, PERIOD!!! Foye bad D allows opposing SG to get hot early and then they go off. Foye v Kobe…he might drop 40 on us.Foye is a specialist a rotation player, thats it. He cannot be in the game late cuz teams zero-in on him, like Raptors, Celtics, Kings. Wizards didnt have anyone (Jazz won), Harden was hurt (Jazz won), Foye on the bench in the 4th (Jazz beat Kings). If Foye is in the game he has to play the SG on O and PG on D.
Jazz really need to address this roster. Tinsley is a 3rd PG and Watson is a 4th PG; Al is a backup C (Jason Thomson was my sleeper FA I wanted to back up Kanter, he looks better than Al); Foye is a rotation player that should get minutes when hot and thats it. Burks and Evans are the two most athletic players on the roster, their athleticism alone makes them eoth more than Tinsley, Watson, Al, Foye, at this point maybe even Millsap and Carroll.
I was really hoping someone would step up after Cousins hit the self destruct button. Usually on contract year players play a little better than their career average. Al and Millsaps numbers are concerning. The hustle that doesnt show in stats, even more concerning. This loss isnt a fluke. Kings are not a great team. They should have been handled with their best player out of the game. With Mo gone, im surprised we didnt get alot more offense production from Hayward/Millsap/Al with more touches available to them.
This game is saw close to 10 possesions where Al just straight up did not even try on defense. He just stood there. There was one where he got out hustled for a rebound started complaining and they just threw it to a guy under the basket wide open cause Al was complaining. Any of the young guys would have been pulled out of the game for that right there. No accountability on this roster and it is pathetic.
Foye was hot for 1 quarter and then the rest of the game was nothing. He is a 20 minute a night specialist and we play him like he is a freaking all star!
We keep moving everyone around to suit 1 player in the starting line up. It is pathetic! Especially when he does not try to do anything. Why should anyone try and play hard when your “leader” does not? If he plays and gets away with it I am sure everyone else feels like it is no big deal.
Overall a lot of players struggled but we can not have people just not trying and that is what we are getting.
We need to improve our defense. I don’t see any resistance out there unless it’s at home. Very frustrating
This team is a puzzle, and I don’t envy Corbin trying to fit all the pieces together. To his credit, he has tried several different lineups, both with the first and second unit. He isn’t just playing the same starting five every night, and he often tries different combinations with the second group as well. The problem is that when he seems to solve one issue, a new issue always seem to arise.
On one hand, I like the idea of starting Hayward at shooting guard because he is a better defender then Foye. But, on the other hand, Hayward gets more looks on the offensive end of the floor with the second group, not having to compete with Jefferson, Millsap, and Mo Williams for shot opportunities.
On one hand, I like the idea of starting Favors in the starting lineup, but unfortunately, he does tend to get in early foul trouble on a fairly consistent basis. For whatever reason, Derrick seems to be more productive with the second group, and by starting him out on the bench, he doesn’t pick up early fouls, and really gives a terrific lift with the second unit.
Corbin has also tried using Marvin Williams as a starter and a reserve. Marvin is a very inconsistent player, and I’m not sure whether it really matters if he starts or comes off the bench.
About the only thing that Ty hasn’t tried with this group is bringing either Jefferson or Millsap off the bench. While they can both score and rebound effectively enough, they are a dreadful defensive combination. It might be interesting to see a lineup of Favors, Millsap, Marvin, Hayward, and Mo. Another possibility would be a lineup of Jefferson, Favors, Marvin, Hayward, and Mo. I guess you could substitute Foye for Hayward with either of those lineups as well. It’s been well documented that Jefferson can’t defend the pick and roll, and is a subpar defender in general, but over the last few years we have had a group of point guards (Harris, Mo Williams, Tinsly, etc..)that have a very difficult time staying between their man and the basket. They are the first line of defense, and when they break down, it’s all on Jefferson, and Millsap to provide the last line of defense. Neither of those guys is really up to that kind of challenge (Jefferson is just slow, and Millsap is undersized).
I wonder how a lineup of Kanter, Millsap, Marvin, Hayward (or Foye), and Mo Williams might fare? Jefferson would probably be able to score at will on another teams second group, and Favors would stay out of early foul trouble by letting Kanter start.
At any rate, I wouldn’t want Corbin’s job right now.
Amen Dallan!
Foye is hot in 1st and Corbin pulls him out?! When hes cold Corbin forces him into line up (usually in 4th quarter)
I feel like Jazz are playing with an off-season camp squad; meaning its seems like the players playing are just playing to be evaluated before cuts and the final roster is set. Watson and Tinsley should be getting DNPs; Al and Foye should be rotation pieces like >than 20 minutes per game (unless hot); Carroll as well. Yet these guys are dominating the rotation.
Id rather ride or die with the Core 5 and hopefully have Mo, Millsap, and Foye as complimenary pieces–bench players in other words. Have Hayward at the PG, Burks at SG, Marvin, Favors, and Kanter.
Omar – If you had a perfect roster, I totally agree that Mo, Millsap, and Foye would be terrific off the bench.
I don’t think Hayward has the speed to defend most point guards in this league. He is a terrific passer, but I really don’t see him playing the one spot. Also, David Locke keeps all kind of stats, and when Kanter and Favors are on the floor together, the plus and minus show that they aren’t the greatest combination. I really think the Jazz need to break up the Jefferson/Millsap and Kanter?Favors combinations. Either play Jefferson with Kanter or Favors, or Millsap with either Kanter or Favors.
Sorry…Kanter/Favors…didn’t mean for the question mark to slip in there.
One thing for sure, both Favors and Hayward have got too start shooting a higher percentage from the floor. Neither guy has a consistent offensive game at this point. Shooting in the low 40% range just doesn’t cut it. Hayward has got to make his wide open looks from the perimeter, and it’s unacceptable that a guy who plays as close to the basket as Favors, with his skill set, only shoots 41% from the floor.
Earl’s alley oop was ok. I still like tinsley’s game better. His fastbreak is decent, but half court is a disaster with him at point. Our team as a whole seem pretty unmotivated for winning as many games as we have. We just squeaked one off barely against a team and then dont bring our A game the very next day? Last night the Jazz should have been on a seek and destroy mission to prove we are the better team. There was no fight. No opportunity for the guys that want to fight.
@Jason Hayward, Millsap, and Al dont have an excuse. But Favors gets alot of uncalled contact on his shots. And Millsap and Al are shooting terrible for how many possesions they get. I love that Al started looking to draw contact on his shots and he went to the free throw line 7 times a few games back. why did he stop?
In order to be a really good road team in this league, you need a superstar who can rise to the challenge in the fourth quarter. That’s why in my opinion, the Jazz are really struggling on the road. I mean, even when the Jazz had Malone/Stockton, and D-Will they didn’t have a great road record most of the time (obviously, the Finals years were an exception). I think the Jazz will be very lucky to win even 15 games on the road this season.
I see what your saying Jason, and I agree that Hayward needs to be more consistent with his shot, but I think some of that is getting into rhythm, and as a bench player, thats one of the hardest things.
I guess the way I am looking at it is, in terms of the Fab 5: when they were mixing and matching the 5 freshmen with the more veteran players, Michigan was nothing special, but when they decided to START all 5 freshmen at the same time, then pride and confidence took over and they are legends pretty much. I don’t know if you have seen that Fab 5 documentary, but they all to a man said that was the changing point in season. And the vets accepted their roles and they made it to 2 national title games. If Corbin came out and said he was going to start Kanter, Favors, Marvin, Burks, and Hayward…there would be a buzz like nobody’s business. And with that responsibility they would step up. I know I would be excited! I am a believer in the Core 5.
And I think Hayward’s length will make up for maybe being a bit slow to some PGs, He can give space cuz his length would bother shots. He did pretty well guarding Parker in the playoffs, and that top of the line in pressure situation. If its a quick PG, Id put Burks on the PG and Hayward on the SG.
Barring a trade, or a bunch of injuries, I’m projecting the Jazz win 47 games this season (somewhere around 32-9 at home, and 15-26 on the road).
But Omar, that group would be a terrible perimeter shooting combination. Hayward isn’t a consistent outside shooter by any stretch, and neither is Burks. Kanter and Favors, for the most part, are strictly paint players. Marvin Williams could hit a three pointer here and there, but it wouldn’t be nearly enough. If I were the other team, I would protect the paint and dare the Jazz to beat me from the outside.
Favors can’t be blamed for his bad shooting percentages. The majority of his shots are rushed last resorts. If the team would play some offense through him, his percentages would be much higher. The same can be said for Hayward in the starting lineup. He’s the last guy to get a look. When you only have a few seconds left, you’re not going to toss up high percentage shots.
Corbin is inept. Look at Demarcus Cousins. Obviously a prima donna and all, but he’s getting a lot of playing time and he’s doing well for his situation. Derrick Favors was taken three picks before him, he should be thriving by now, near superstar status. Corbin’s biases for veterans is costing our young guys their shot at being great and helping our team win.
When I watch Jefferson step back and watch his man tiptoe through to a showtime dunk three possessions in a row, there’s obviously something wrong. Jefferson shouldn’t be starting. He should be getting Kanter’s minutes. Kanter was also a number three pick, why aren’t we playing him? He’s a spectacular player with immense strength, range and fantastic low-post footwork, AND he plays defense and boxes out! He’s clearly an upgrade over Jefferson. And on his inconsistent nights, you have Jefferson to go to as a safety net. It’s not a difficult thing to see. Corbin needs to go.
@Jason, without at least 50 games won this year, it is highly improbable that we will make the playoffs… I am hoping that this is our grind year. The year where we weed out all of the unnecessary pieces, solidify our offense, fix our defensive holes, and set ourselves up for a good run next year. If we can efficiently and effectively do these four things, I think we could be a top 5 team in the West next year. However, this is the year we need to get these things done. We’ve got lots of talent, we need to bring it together, cut off the appendages that aren’t working and add pieces that will. This is the year that we set ourselves up to several years of deep runs. It’s a crucial year…
@Jason agree! A star go to guy on offense that can also play defense is a must for a team to be successful in this league. We dont have to tank the season to get this IMO. Would we really be a broke team if we traded 4 players including 2 low post players to pick up a star and a back up center? Or a star and draft picks? With 2 of our post players gone we would still have 3 on the roster. If one of them got injured, call one up from D league like we do with gaurds.
@Jason, but how would you attack that team when they were on defense???
And I wouldn’t be worried about the half-court offense cuz Jazz would be running all day everyday after defensive rebounds, block shots, and steals, so we would actually be getting higher percentage shots and a ton of points in the paint from all the layups and dunks. Plus Burks can go one-on-one and get us a basket or a wide open shot for Marvin or Hayward, or dunk put back for Favors or Kanter.
For those of you questioning Tinsley as “Jazz player of the game,” I don’t blame you. He’s an awful defender and turns it over like crazy. But he actually shot the ball well for once, his late 3’s were all that kept us from getting blown out, and quite frankly nobody else played much better.
It is kinda crazy that we have to say two of our best players of Hayward and Favors are better off the bench because they actually get a chance to touch the ball. The energy every night comes from the 2nd unit. So why are those the players not starting? If it was Mo,Gordon,Marvin,Paul Favors linep we would be able to give our better players the ball!! It is a joke to push guys to the bench because they do not fit along side the guy who will not ever lead this team to a championship. We should not be catering to that guy
Ya wanna know why all the youngsters still have growing pains? Cause they are not given oppurtunity to get on the floor and learn!! If they were we would see much more consistency cause they would know what works and does not work. Floor time is important and we are not giving the people who need it time.
It is going to be sad when all these teams drafting young guys teams are better then is cause they get experience in games not crap experience on the bench…
I think its sad all these guys on one year deals are taking wins away from our future, all while NOT winning now. Seriously the stupidest thing ever. I would get it if the vets were amazing and were closing out games and putting teams away in the fourth, etc., but they’re not.
Jefferson: defensively weak, only excellent offensively against bad players
Millsap: undersized, relies on steals on D, and seems a step slower this year
Marvin: has an all-around game , but disappears offensively if he has a tough defensive assignment
Foye: Can have a big impact on games from the perimeter but is defensively deficient versus SGs who can drive to the hoop
Mo: Probably the best of the vets, but can get too shot-happy and not get everyone involved and get the best shot like he should.
And it’s not like our young guys don’t have their issues, because they do. But it’s widely believed they have a higher ceiling, and they are the players whose skills, developed or not, will be winning or losing us games as soon as next year and into the future. So if the vets have their weaknesses and aren’t winning us games, why not play the young guys and develop for the future? And I’m of the opinion they WILL win us games now.
Lets hope this is just the ‘increase the vets trade value’ portion of the season.
@ KC seems like its only you, me and omar who would rather that.. i firmly believe the rooks can get us wins against who ever. they are comfortable together on the court. Swag!! WHYYYYY are one year contract players getting all the minutes.. Trash of a coach and front office for not doing anything about this. ridiculous and i couldnt care less if the jazz lose every game from now on because its quite clear the fans arent getting what they want(unless they are kanter and burks haters)
im still seeing BIG AL holding the damm ball for how long and then chucking up that one handed crap of a push shot from like 20 ft lmao.. are u kidding me. that did it for me. he should have been benched for that alone. when demarcus cousins is breaking your ankles that means you cannot play D. im positive Dcuz cannot cross me over. HEEEELLL NO
KC is exactly right. Corbin’s mismanagement of this roster has been beyond pathetic from the moment he stepped into the coaching job. I have zero confidence in this team, short term or long term, with Corbin calling the shots.
The problem is, I think we’re going to be stuck with him for a long time. The front office and ownership are all about consistency and longevity within the staff. And as long as the Jazz are a finge playoff team (as in 7-9 seed every year) with “potential” to be better the following year (which will never be realized due to poor coaching), the Millers will never dump him. And this team has too much talent to fall out of the “fringe playoff team” category, but again, will never be anything more with Corbin in charge. So we’re stuck just treading water for who knows how long.
@pintz – I would rather go a losing season or 2 to build a Thunder style team. It constantly annoys me that the Jazz seem to have no ambition, which is another reason we cant attract free agents. Players will take a pay cut to go somewhere to win, but they want an increase to go somewhere to be average.
@ disco same here but the way its looking it will never happen. theres nothing interesting about this brand of jazz basketball.. i havent been glued to the t.v for a full 48. corbin wants to try all these line ups, why not trod the all the youngsters out there as a surprise and see how they react.. there is something special when burks favors heyward and kanter is on the court together. its just there. i am also a firm believer in evans being serviceable(defensively).
Scores last night (Sun) Blazers Aldridge got a DNP coaches dec. Looks like their coach does not take guff. Started two rookies. Blazers lost the game but whatever is going on looks like the coach did the right thing.
The Jazz will never be a legit playoff threat until Corbin is gone. I HATED when people would say that about Sloan, but how can you argue that with Corbin? I don’t care if he has a tough job, he gets paid handsomely to do it, and if he can’t do it there’s coaches out there who can. Clearly he will not think. I understand that he knows the game FAR better than I do, but that is why I get annoyed by his lack of fire. How do you not bench Al for the rest of the game to send a message about effort? I know Al isn’t a great defender, but even bad defenders should be able to scrap and fight and claw their way to a few good defensive plays. It’s like Al knows that people think he’s bad on defense so he just figures why try. He stands there and watches the show instead of trying. A professional anything tries their best to make up for their weaknesses in any way they possibly can. Al doesn’t even put forth half an effort because after the game he’ll be going to La Caille for a $200.00 dinner with the opposing team and coaches.
I used to like Al, and I would defend him based on his offense (figuring Ty would be smart enough to play Favors with him and therefore make up for some defensive deficiencies) but I refuse to apologize for a player that has zero heart and zero fire. Al is a good guy, and he is very polite. But he is only a good basketball player when he has a coach that uses their brain. Corbin doesn’t use that brain. The two of them together make a bad team.
When Al got that rebound stripped by Cousins and then stood their looking at the ref for a foul with his hands in the air while the game was still going on and Cousins drove and dished to the guy cutting behind Al for the layup I have to admit I was disgusted. I immediately told my wife ‘Put in Favors’, assuming that’s what was coming next because that’s what any sane, logical coach would do. You CAN’T demand anything less than full effort from your players, and if you don’t, well guess what? You can’t complain EVER about the lack of effort from your players, because YOU SUPPORTED THAT LACK OF EFFORT. But Al stayed in the game. I seriously could not believe it. That play right there should raise huge red flags on both Al AND Corbin with the Jazz F.O. Handing out an undeserved extension too soon was a bad move.
@LK: Aldridge sat out due to back spasms
Everybody calm down. Yes we are struggling, but we are supposed to. We’re a new team, with 3 new major additions to our team.
We need to have a little patience, as frustrating as it is. Even Gordon and Favors can be forgiven for struggling. Remember that technically they still haven’t played 2 full seasons.
Their 3rd year jump wont happen until the middle or the end of the season.
The guys who are not getting it done are Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap. They’re the ones who should be getting the brunt of our wrath.
I mean Pau Gasol scores 15 points and grabs 10 rebounds, and the entire coaching staff, fanbase, and NBA media scream BENCH HIM! TRADE HIM!
Corbin is a better coach than any of you realize, he just lacks the balls to bench his starters when they should be. And he’s a total chump when it comes to playing young guys, even if they play better than the starters.
Alec Burks, as bad of a shooter and distributor as he is, would have made a tremendous impact in the last couple of games.
Burks SHOULD be playing tonight. Because the fast paced, insanse athleticism of Denver, only a couple of guys on our team can keep up with them, and Burks is one of them.
Tyrone Corbin quite obviously has something personal against the kid. Why else would he get LESS playing time this year than last?
I expect the Jazz to include Alec Burks in any trade this team makes. So, he’ll continue to get DNPs until February, the month of the trade deadline.
@KC – that was exactly the play for me too… and it happened on the second play of the game. Corbin called a timeout right after that, and I too was hoping he would yell at Al and then bench him until the second half…but of course he didn’t.
@Nick knows all
I will be patient if and when I see effort. If Corbin is doing more than “experimenting” with the starting lineups, I will be patient. If he is in player’s faces for lack of effort and he is giving minutes to those who earn it, I will be patient.
Bear in mind, I am not complaining about our record. I will accept losing IF we are getting better and making significant progress. I will not however, sit back and be patient while Corbin does absolutely NOTHING to prepare this team for the future. Everything good about our youth and potential is predicated upon a coach who will be able to prepare them for success down the road. Playing Earl Watson and Jamal Tinsley ahead of Burks is not the way to do that. Allowing Al to be a lazy sack while Favors sits on the bench also is not the way to do it. Favors watches Al stand there like a tool, and get double his minutes. What does that teach him? It teaches him that effort does not equal reward.
Patience on my part, should be earned on the Jazz part. I am only patient when Corbin is trying. Not when he can’t see past his man crush on Al and everyone else has to suffer because of it.
@Kevin That last statement was pure brilliance. That is exactly the point it is not the losing on the road or losing in general it’s the fact of losing and we are not even trying. If we played our butts off and lost that is a different story. The Hornets last year played hard every game they just did not have enough talent to win. If we played hard every night we would have won half our losses at least!
Perfectly stated by all ^^^^^^^^^
When I saw Kanter bullying Cousin and then clap in his face, thats when I was yelling at the TV. Thats what I want to see!!! Not Al using Jedi powers to block shots…hasnt worked yet.