Meet
such disrespect
Posted by: Trevor Knight on August 21st, 2012
The author's views are entirely his or her own and may not reflect the views of the Utah Jazz.i was floored when i was on hoopshype.com today. the turkish teams head coach tore into kanter and ty thejust wanted everyones opinion on this i couldnt believe this was coming from a guy that couldnt even be an assitant coach in this league i hope he was joking when he said all what he said.
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61 Responses
Maybe you could provide a link in case we haven’t heard about it or read it?
Don’t talk about things you don’t know, “couldn’t even be an assistant in this league”, are you kidding me, Ty couldn’t even be an assistant for Tanjevic, this is the reality…….
The guy have won medals for 3 different national teams, won championship with clubs in 4 different country, a european cup and some national cup, the guy have 40 years of basketball coaching and can teach so much to almost every NBA coach, he is right, most of the NBA coach are weak, probably because in most case, they are just the guy on the bench near the guy who is fired, but they don’t have coaching abilities, the NBA is even able to give the job to a video assistant (canales) instead of giving it to a real coach…..
The only disrespect i see here is yours……
When i see Ettore Messina assistant of Mike Brown and not the contrary, i think the NBA have a big problem, not very surprising if the only decent coach Popovich is reigning on this league since a decade, even with a so old team…….
I do not think the NBA coachs are weak. They have players with very big ego’s. The owners support those big ego’s and if a coach upsets that balance, who is to suffer but the coach. Jerry Sloan was a lot like Popovich or the other way around. Yes, I do agree with you on what is happening in the NBA and not all of it is good. Many times the big ego’s do win out and not the coaches decisions. The owners needs to stand behind their coach becasue the players have the power not the coach.
I don’t think all of the NBA coaches are weak but I do think a lot of bad coaches get fired and walk into another job too easily and then continue to make the same mistakes with their new team that they made in their last job. You could say that about any sport though.
Its a sad reality that NBA teams are not going to take a chance on a foreign coach coming into their franchise – language, player egos, different working methods are all factors. Probably though its more than that. Its such an obvious change at the helm and that would leave the owners with a target on their back. If it didn’t work out for any reason at all it would blow up in their faces. The uneducated fan or lazy journalist would look to the foreign coach as the reason for failure. Unfortunately their isn’t a respect for basketball outside of the NBA by the American fan and we can perhaps blame the Olympics for that. The fact is the NBA is the most professional league in the world, and it does have the best players, but that might not mean it has all the best coaches. However it would take a very brave GM or Team owner to go foreign on a coaching choice, and if they want a successful franchise and not just a year or two long failed experiment they would have to ignore fans and journalists trying to sell papers if things weren’t going as expected in the first few months. A couple of bad results at the beginning and things could escalate very quickly into a situation that would be impossible to deal with if the PR from the top wasn’t handled correctly at the beginning.
Coach Sloan got a little bit of luck. The franchise got the right players at the right time which made his job easier. He also had an owner and GM who valued the head coaching position above everything else and stuck with him through thick and thin. Very few NBA franchises have that mentality, and that is why they often fail. It does not matter the sport if the coach is good enough the coach should always be given time to do their job. Its not always obvious at first what the coach is trying to do to attain success but a failing club cannot be turned around overnight. Manchester United had years of failure, then they turned to Alex Ferguson to manage the club, and he had many years of not winning trophy s. The club though paitent were just about to give up on him, he was a week or two from getting the sack when he won his first trophy at Man Utd (he’d won others elsewhere), now he the most successful, longest serving coach (yes longer than Sloan) and they won’t let the man retire because his stamp is all of that club. The next man up is going to inherit a great club but an impossible situation. You have to have faith and patience in a coach to do his job. The mentality of a club has to change into the new coaches vision and if you keep changing the head coach looking for the new messiah the club never develops a vision.
@French Dude
I see that you are european, and I can respect your opinion. I am sure that Tanjevic is a fantastic coach. But he is looking good in a weak league. Those teams still can’t touch the talent in America and so he is coaching against a bunch of lesser players. It’s harder to coach in a league with better opponents so you can’t really say he could teach all the NBA coaches something. His mind would be blown if he had to game plan around stopping the Miami Heat instead of trying to stop Kirilenko.
Sure, he could be a great coach here. But no one knows for sure, including you. Nothing is a guarantee.
You seem to overlook the fact that a coach who has weaker talent to play against also has weaker talent to choose from. Good coaches are successful despite it all. Would Eric Spoelstra be able to translate his success at Miami to another team without Lebron and Wade? We don’t know, hes a young coach learning his trade. But coaches that have success at multiple teams do so because they are good coaches not solely because of personnel.
If you get passed the hyperbole, this is a classic case of a broken clock right twice a day. Yes, Corbin is not a very good coach, I dont know if weak is the right word, maybe overly cautious and subordinate and conservative and unauthoritative??? But some of that has to do with personnel and the GM that assembles the roster. Watson was given 2M to be the backup PG, so thats who Corbin is made to play, same for CJ 3.7M, Bell 3.4M, Al 14M. Now this is were Corbin should have been authoritative and said, “I dont care who is getting paid more or has been in the NBA longest, the best players play”…but he didnt do that. The vets would override Corbin.
And yes, hes right that Kanter can shoot and that hr needs playing time to develop, thats true.
@kevin it’s not the fact of being european or not, but in europe the basketball is played like it have to be played, the coach is the boss, the basketball is a collective game, you have to use tactics and strategy, being smart….. in most of NBA teams, and it’s a fact, some unexperienced coach just say, give the key to the guy with the bigger salary……. sorry but it’s not basketball……. last year Ty did a not so bad year because opportune injuries had exempted him to take decisions, period.
exactly Steven, weak players against, weak players in your team too, if you know the formula to win in one league, you know the formula to win in every league……
I had so much respect for Jerry Sloan, but Ty Corbin, sorry but for me he is nothing except a former jazz player, not a coach……
Glad someone wrote on this. As Omar said. Corbin is not a good coach. He is weak in the way that he just let’s his player tell him what they are doing. And Kanter can shoot well it is whether the coaches put him in a position to do that. Run some plays do not park his butt in the paint and make him do what he is not good at. Same goes with Favors.
I can’t see how anyone can judge a player on his first year. Kanter had not player any competitive basketball for a long time and he is just a kid. Patience and time will make him the player he could be..
French Dude I agree with you. The coach is the one that should be in control. Look at the Spurs as a model team of the coach being in control. Sloan was also that way. But I think some owners wants to meddle with the players and coach. Many times it is some players that needs to be fired and not the coach. I think it is easier to fire the coach than fire the players. A player should have to earn his playing time and the best players should be the ones on the floor when the game is on the line. Maybe not players with the biggest salary or the biggest ego.
I do think the Jazz are one or two years alway from being a very good team. The younger players do need the playing time to get better. There has to be a balance there that the coach has control and not the players. I think one way a cancer starts is the players being in control. Go Jazz
Im glad french dudebrought up strategy because the nba is a whole diffrent game then the euro league. The nba is a more physical game so kanter needs to play with his back to the basket more and, the turkish coach is complianing about that. Sounds like he doesnt know what he’s talking about and needs to watch more nba games before opening his mouth my personal opinion. Ty has a few flaws but, last season was his first season where he was plagued with injuries and, other problems and we still made the playoffs the guy isnt doing to bad of a job.
Alot of questions about Ty should be answered with the playsets and offense he builds this summer and if he can use the talent. Tanjevic is spot on about Kanters back up in the post and not using Kanters shooting range. Some of that is on Kanter but Ty has to use him correctly.
Tanjevic: “NBA coaches don’t understand,” “Kanter has forgotten how to play”
On Enes Kanter not playing on the national team in 2012, Tanjevic said that “He is a great talent and we miss him a lot. He decided not to join us but honestly, he needs us more than we need him. He has not played or trained with us in the past three years. I [also] had to replace [Kerem] Gonlum, who was on holiday with his family. Without Kanter, it will be a little more difficult but I think we’ll be able to get into EuroBasket 2013.”
But Tanjevic also sees a problem with dependence on NBA stars at all – namely, the coaches. Was he surprised when Kanter declined to play with Team Turkey? “I’m not surprised at all … America is the perfect place to lose your head. Firstly, because the coaches [there] do not understand. In the NBA, there are just three or four coaches who have been there for 100 years, making billions and winning trophies. Others are weak. Including [Utah Jazz head coach] Tyrone Corbin…
“I should have told him that I was going him to do a great service by teaching one of its basketball players and he could have earned money on it. But I don’t want to talk to guys who do not know what they are doing. Kanter has forgotten how to play basketball. He will never be a center but he always starts with his back to the basket. As a power forward, this would be devastating. He’s 2.10 meters tall and [could be] the best shooter on the Turkish team, backcourt included. But in the NBA, he never takes a shot.”
My guess is Kanter didn’t play for Turkey so he can stay here and learn how to play in the NBA. something Tanjevic can’t teach…
I finally found this story last night on twitter, and after reading it I agree wholeheartedly with @Trevor.
The dude may be a good coach but if he’s THAT good, why didn’t they make the Olympics? He was speaking off of emotion and bitterness. He doesn’t know a thing about coaching in the NBA. Although he might be a good european coach, he doesn’t know what it takes to coach at this HIGHER level of play.
I do agree with @French that the Euro coaches have better control of their team. I am so sick of the arrogant, entitlement attitude of NBA players. But this coach is putting off the same vibe in the way he disrespects and treats other people. He should have the decency to shut his mouth until he knows what it’s like in the NBA where the best players in the world play. To me, that would be like Kreis (coach of REAL Salt Lake) bagging on the coach of Manchester United or some other soccer powerhouse even though Kreis coaches in a weaker, less prestigious league. It’s a bunch of nonsense.
Sorry, but all Euro league is about, is flopping and nut punching. The euro’s have ruined the game of basketball by trying to turn it into figure skating instead of a contact sport like it was in the 80’s
@frenchdude I would say how I really feel about european style of basketball but I’m afraid that as you read my words you’d flop. But I will say that anyone outside of the nba who thinks they know even a little bit about it is either moronic or super arrogant. The US took gold with half our team being made up of B players, we freaking had a bench player on the team! Of course this guy could be a good coach in the nba, but so could the guy who coaches at the jr high school down the road from me…they both have about as much experience in that type of environment. So really until europe has leagues that are as talented as the nba they can’t say anything at all about the game.
for everyone, first the real words of Tanjevic, sorry but it could make you more angry, he didn’t say “there are just three or four coaches who have been there for 100 years, making billions and winning trophies. Others are weak.”, he said “others are idiots”…….. oups hoopshype
why turkey is not in the olympics, because it’s so much harder to go to the olympics for an european team, only 2 spots in the Euro for 24 teams (spain and FRANCE), 2 more were qualyfied in a pre-olympic tournement (russia and lithuania), like Turkey, big teams like Serbia, Germany, Croatia, Slovenia were not even qualified for the pre-olympics…..
the comparison between SIR Alex ferguson and Kreis, and Tanjevic and Ty is biased, because in term of experience and knowing the game, Tanjevic is Ferguson, and Ty is Kreis……
The NBA is the best league, i don’t contest that, but your coaches are not on that high standards, a coach have to be a game changer, have to adapt, at any time in the middle of a game if he need to, change tactics every time he need to……. i don’t see many of them in this league exception of Pop and Doc Rivers, guys like Thibodeaux and brooks were promising but showed their limits in the last PO……. the rest is only dependent of the shooting% of the night…….
saying that euro league games are all about floping and nut punching is only a proof that you probably never watch many euro games, i dont have that problem i watch the two, and if i remember well i’m a Jazz fan, so i probably like the NBA, but because i watch the two, i see what is best in euro leagues and what is best in the NBA,and don’t think the NBA don’t need improvment, so many things can be better, and sorry again but coaching is more complete here……
As for the gold of the US “B” team, just look the roster of Spain and usa, amuse me and try to convince me that the difference of these 2 teams is only 11 points in 08 and 7 pts in 12 with the names on the paper, i think you agree with me if i say Kobe Lebron and Durant are better than the 2 gasol and ibaka, so with only 7 points at the end i bet scariolo did a better work than his opposite in extracting the best of his roster
@French
If Dwight Howard was up against the Gasol’s and Scola got his head stomped on again by Kevin Love, I assure you the Team USA would have won by more. You bring up LeBron, Durant, and Kobe but then compare them to the Gasols. Yes they are better overall, but the NBA did not have Griffin or Howard. In which case they would have made the Gasol’s look as stupid as Tanjevic when he opens his mouth.
The NBA needs A LOT of improvement. You are right. Stern has done some good for the league, but he also has allowed so much crap to sneak in. Guess where that crap is from? European players. Divac paved the way for Ginobili to come in and corrupt the game. It used to be MEN playing against MEN and they had pride in their stature. Now? Now we have a bunch of prima donna’s flopping around and playing the refs instead of the game.
I do not dispute the fact that you know more about Euro play than I do. And I thank the Lord for that because I hate watching European players play basketball. To me, it is almost the same as watching the WNBA. You have players who can pass, shoot, and drive in for layups and that’s great. But in the Olympics and FIBA, all it is is players driving, and either laying it in or dishing out for a 3. I prefer the athleticism of the NBA. No one outside of America should pretend that they are superior to the American NBA players in any way. Tanjevic would have appeared much smarter if he hadn’t said what he said.
If it’s so hard for Turkey to qualify for the Olympics, maybe they need a new coach.
The problem in the nba isn’t the coaches, its the players! Tanjevic would have just as much luck as half the nba coaches trying to make players listen in the nba, the players are treated like gods by everyone around them for so long that they could care less about any coach. And would have been able to find out if he could coach in the nba if he’d have been good enough to get to the olympics and actually coach against nba talent. But due to the fact that you have about a dozen excuses hiding the fact that his team just wasn’t good enough we didn’t get the chance to see that matchup. Really dwight howard would have made the gasols look like 4th grade girls with pig-tails, they go flying when someone the size of john stockton happens to brush their jersey so one can only imagine what would happen if dwight howard or blake griffin went up with a power move! So either euros play the refs or they make earl watson look like a power house. Sorry hopefully that didn’t hurt when you flopped off your chair reading that, but come on dude. You seriously can’t compare coaches or players from far less talented leagues where flopping is prefered to defense to the best league on the planet.
@Kevin and zachary, you don’t understand the point, you talk about someone saying that players outside of america are superior to the American NBA players, no one said that…..you talk about howard and griffin and whoever is better and bla bla bla… this is exactly what i say, your players are better (much easy with 30 pro teams and 200 millions people), but at the end the difference is not so big, and maybe if the difference is not so big, maybe it’s because of some coaching, the all discussion is about coaching and only coaching, not the players……….. and zachary, man, no one on this earth is able to make me flop off my chair, i’m not from spain argentina or italy, my body is full of vikings blood……
as for the matchup with turkey, remember 2010 world champ final, Tanjevic was already with his silver medal
Tanjevic had a silver huh? Tell that to Coach K and his Golds.
If you want to talk about Coaches and not players, lets talk about Coach K, Calipari, and Roy Williams. Any of those three could outcoach Tanjevic in my opinion. We don’t know for sure, cause Tanjevic can’t get his teams to elite enough levels to match up with them. But therein lies the proof I need.
Saying Turkey has the best coach, but it’s just so gosh darn hard to make it to the Olympics is the same logic as if we were to say the Utah Jazz are the best team ever, but they haven’t won a title cause golly, it’s so hard!
Winning solves all of that, and obviously Tanjevic’ greatest accomplishment was a shiny silver medal at the World Championship Final.
And just to be more clear, my point about players was only in reference to YOU bringing up the fact that the Gasol’s and Scola gave the US a run. MY point, is that if we had our greatest players there, that would not have even been close. Tanjevic obviously can’t coach a winning team or he would have accomplished something that is “hard” just like the other Euro teams who actually DID qualify for the Olympics.
And don’t complain that I mentioned College coaches instead of NBA. If Tanjevic rags on American Basketball, he rags on the NCAA just like the NBA. American Basketball is American Basketball and to say that it ruined Kanter or whoever else is just some tool in Turkey blowing steam from the bottom of the rankings. The only reason the U.S took notice is because heat rises.
Silver is fun and I guess euro players and coaches think so too…but gold is better in my opinion but I guess thats a US kind of thing. And really if coaching is the immediate game changer then you should have some gold somewhere, anywhere. But instead we win, there hasn’t been an upset in years and years which you can’t say is all about the players talent. There have been countless times in the history of sports where the underdog less talented team won because of superior coaching or style of play…but not here?? Sometimes euro coaches get close sure but if nba coaches and players were as helpless as is being said there would be an upset every now and then especially since like I said we don’t send all our best. Seriously if you read what tanjevic said he was just bitter about kanter bailing on him, he sounded just like my teenage brother when a girl doesn’t want to date him anymore. So that alone makes me eternally grateful that we don’t have a coach with such a tiny amount of emotional control over our team. Most players and coaches are happy when their players get to go from the euro league to the nba to play against the best and get better…he just tries to make them look stupid. Where’s the leadership in that?
man you listen nothing, who said turkey has the better coach, me, never, he is not, Messina is better, scariolo, obradovic, maljkovic, ivanovic, david blatt probably too, (blatt his US for the record)…… but Tanjevic is a better coach than Ty, and it’s the original debate…….. and like i already said Tanjevic won medals for 3 different national teams, and championship in 4 different countries, his list of awards is big
Really your argument is that tanjevic is better than ty….DUH!!! Ty has been a coach for two shortened seasons and his team has been 4 rookies and constant trades and player movement. Of course tanjevic with all his experience is better right now! That’s like saying that I’m better than my 8 month old daughter at basketball, typing, math, etc…of course the guy with tons of experience is better. But with all those other guys what it comes down to is that they have never coached at an nba level, they haven’t been able to beat the US teams even though we didn’t always send our best and that even on our off nights we still ended up winning the GOLD medals. At the end of the day your claims are only backed up by your saying they have come close a couple times…
04 olymics Argentina gold
90 wc yougoslavia gold
98 wc yougoslavia gold
02 wc yougoslavia gold
06 wc spain gold
“But instead we win, there hasn’t been an upset in years and years”…… not so sure
The argument is actually not just about Ty. The argument is about Tanjevic opening his big mouth and bashing on all of the “idiot” NBA coaches. Everyone knows Tanjevic is better than Ty.
I am afraid that you are the one that “listens nothing”. You can’t trim the boundaries of the argument every time we throw down on your debate. The entire argument is that Tanjevic is not as good as he thinks he is. He shouldn’t speak off of emotion because obviously he doesn’t have the maturity or leadership to continue being mature in the global spotlight. I guess we can’t blame him though, since he missed the Olympics that was his only global 15 minutes of fame.
Zach made a good point earlier too about how he stabbed Kanter in the back the first chance he got. That says a lot about Tanjevic’ lack of character.
okay no one cares about FIBA world championships for starters. Second, you bring up the 04 Gold. Okay…you got us there. He wont gold in 04 at the Olympics.
A) none of our best players were there
B) Argentina is known for their flopping “European Style”
What of the countless other Olympics that he didn’t qualify for, or we smoked everyone? Has he ever tore through a field of competition like American basketball has? World Championships in FIBA are nothing like they are in FIFA.
Yeah 6 years…so years and years. And I’ll give you the 04 olympics that was an embarrassment to the entire country. I still don’t know why we let that team back on US soil. But really no one over here cares about the world championships, including our players, we look at them more as an upgraded summer league. I think they call them “friendlies” where you’re from. So yeah, congrats on winning your exhibition tournaments.
argentina is america, not europe, you don’t care about the world champ, that’s your problem, the tournament is here and you play it every time, i guess you don’t play to lose, tanjevic has a big mouth, yes, a yougo, in turkey, talking to an italian newspaper have always a big mouth, most of what he said is for the show, but he had some good points too…….
Exactly so your entire argument is based on something one guy said cause his player broke his little heart and he put on a show to make him feel better. And yeah I’m not bragging about the world champ because we don’t care about them. Which is sad that we can win the tournament that we don’t care about. And its not my problem, I’m just saying if your best shot is to brag about winning the thing we don’t care about then that’s really sad. Cause that’s literally like a team bragging that they won a pre-season game. But I guess if that makes you feel better then keep bragging about your exhibition games and telling us its our fault. We’ll just keep winning when we really want to and throw you those world champ bones.
I told you they play their style. I didn’t say they were geographically in Europe.
His points were unfounded. HE is right that the NBA needs work. But it’s his players that have ruined it, as well as Messina’s, scariolo’s, obradovic’s, maljkovic’s, and ivanovic’s.
And the only reason Euro’s DO care about World’s, is because that’s the only ones they can win. And the only reason they can win them, is because the better players/coaches in America don’t care.
you bored me, i wanted to talk about coaching, and how to make better coaching in this league, but you only come with your WE WON THE GOLD, WE’RE THE BEST, WE CAN’T BE CRITICIZED, BECAUSE WE LOSE ONLY BECAUSE WE WAN’T……… even the best need to try to be better….. fiba wc is a summer league, ok, you only care about the olympics, ok, so back to the past, 2000, sydney, final, USA vs FRANCE, do you remember the French roster, no you not, because none of them never played in the NBA (except rigaudeau 80 min in 11 games with dallas), you remember the US roster, (Steve Smith, Gary Payton, Vince Carter, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Ray Allen, Vin Baker, Kevin Garnett, Tim Hardaway, Allan Houston, Jason Kidd, Antonio McDyess, Alonzo Mourning), not a summer league team, and in this final versus a no name team, with 4 min to play, France was only trailing by 4, defeated by only 10 at the end, in a tounrnament where you had pass in semi 85-83 versus lithuania, a country of 3,5 million people, much less than NY, barely most than Utah…….. so stop talking to me about tournament you want to win or you don’t want to win…..
you come with your top ten player you win, you come with a between 10 and 20 top players, you don’t, the rest is only talking
No offense French dude, but Tanjevic didn’t coach the French team or the Lithuania team… so why is he talking like he’s the best?
Coach Ty is not the best coach out there, no one is disputing that, but theres no need for a coach who can’t even make the olympics to talk bad about a league he’s never coached in.
@french dude if you don’t want to talk about medals then why did you bring up the silver you won a few years back? And if you don’t want to talk about coaches why did you name a bunch? You never said anything about making coaches better just that ours suck. You keep trying to find new flaws in our arguments and then change the topic when you can’t win. And even now, so you get close sometimes, so what? Remember when US beat russia in hockey, remember when the #8 nuggets beat the #1 sonics, remember when the perfect patriots team got beat by the barely made the playoff giants? Upsets happen all the time, well except here when its just close calls happen.
Zach, we are beaten men. Team USA only beat France in 2000 by ten points. @FrenchDude has us over a barrell and that point alone completely justifies Tanjevic’s smoke blowing.
My only regret, is that I didn’t remember that France only LOST to us by double digits in 2000. If I had remembered, we might have won this little debate.
Oh wait…….They still lost. Which still proves our point. Which still proves that Tanjevic is a tool….Thanks French Dude! You have added to our side of the debate.
Anyone in debate can just say the other person’s argument isn’t “entertaining” them, or that it’s “just talking” but the only people who say that are the ones getting fleeced. The Olympics of 2 weeks ago should be enough proof for our side of the debate. If not, then how about the Beijing Olympics in 2008? Still no? oh yeah…..Cause Tanjevic won gold 8 years ago, so that’s somehow better than USA winning THIS year and 4 years ago.
Oh thank heavens! I thought we were done for! Man if I had a nickel for everytime another country had outperformed us (player or coaches) I’d have enough money to….ummm….well…gum maybe? But in all seriousness frenchy just tell me what it is exactly you want to debate cause you changing the subject every single post is getting old. You name it, any topic just promise that you’ll stick with that one till the end, well for you the bitter end.
I wish Tanjevic would put on a Luis Scola jersey when Kevin Love is around. Or maybe a Juan Carlos Navarro jersey and i’d sic Nicolas Batum after him.
An interest debate. This is what I got out of all your comments.
1. All coaches can learn from other coaches.
2. Players can learn also. Some faster than others.
3. Coach Ty is not where he needs to be as a coach, yet
4. The US has a style of play and each area has a style of play. The best was to settle the debate is by head to head compation.
5. The US teams have won a lot more than they have lost.
6. I am sure there are some very good coaches in Europe and other countries in the world. On the other hand there are some very good coaches here in the NBA.
7. You can bebate until the 12th of never and not settle anything. But for me it is interesting reading each style of debated used.
8. One think I have learned (high school wrestling coach) that you do not run off at the mouth. When a coach does that it usually does not help his/her team.
opps. in #4, was should be way.. sorry about the error.
Im glad we had such a heated discussion over this but plain and simple tanjevic maybe a good euro league coach but when it comes the american basketball he doesnt know much. So he needs to shut his mouth all he is doing is making himself look bad and, if kanter doesnt have much confidence he is hurting him as well. As a jazz fan that ticks me off dont go after a rookie and hurt the kids confidence like that
@ Kevin European players have ruined the NBA??…?? Are you for real?
I guess you missed the series where Dirk Nowitzki owned Lebron and got a ring?
Debate is fun, but basketball has only been big in Europe for a few decades, it would be ignorant to think that the rest of the world will never catch up. The sport has revenue there now and that motivates young athletes to take up the game.
When Naismith put 2 peach baskets on the court, it was a co-ed game for his PE class. I Dont think they were punching each other. Thug ball ruined basketball. If anything Euro ball brings back the basics with more of a skills and shooting game over brute strength. Also the 80’s was still a finesse era, with maybe the exception of chocolate thunder, young Karl and a few others. Sky hooks were still in full effect.
@Jazzeduponit
Yes I am very for real. Don’t try to read more into what I said than what I actually said. I didn’t say the 80’s had zero finesse. I said the players who played in that era were MEN and not prima donnas.
Dirk Nowitzki is a great player and he adds a lot to the NBA. But he, just like MOST other Euro players have RUINED defense in the game of basketball. Let me repeat that for you……MOST Euro players have RUINED defense in the game of basketball. Remember a man named Vlade Divac? What is he known for? And don’t try to play stupid and say “being traded for Kobe” or “being a key part of the Kings run”. EVERYONE knows he was a collossal flopper. You know what that did? It altered the way players defended each other. Then along comes others like him (mostly from Europe) that employ the same style. Then Americans watch this crap and the stupid ones start doing it too. Pretty soon, no one plays defense! Everyone just tries to cheat and get foul calls.
If you disagree with that, then next season when the Jazz lose to the Spurs because of Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili (all foreign) flopping, I don’t want to hear a single complaint from you.
I am NOT saying that Euro’s are not talented. So stop putting words in my mouth. I am saying their style RUINED the game because of their flopping as opposed to playing hard nosed defense.
I also agree that these thugs have ruined basketball. I did not make a comprehensive list of everything that has hindered the game. Don’t act like I don’t or can’t see the big picture. I simply chose one HUGE problem from the list that fit this particular debate. So yes, I am for real. If you enjoy flopping then that’s totally fine. Watch Soccer.
@jazzed uponit kevin is completely and totally right! Euro’s have completely and totally ruined the game! And its because of flopping, finese is always going to be part of the game because there are always going to be guys who aren’t built like a truck (Like malone) but there was a time that even the most finese player wouldn’t suddenly collapse on the ground or scream in pain because a point guard brushed their jersey. It has gotten to the point that steph curry said the warriors spent part of training camp learning how to flop!!! Thus literally ruining defense in the nba.
Here’s a Quote from Thomas Neumann of ESPN.com:
“Divac was the forefather of the European flop movement, a man ahead of his time. He entered the NBA in 1989 as a horrible defender, and his Lakers teammates—most notably Magic Johnson—demanded improvement. “Most of the time, I flopped because I wasn’t strong enough to stand up against everybody who was so physical,” Divac told the Orange County Register in 1995, referring to his early NBA career.”
Here’s just a fun little excerpt from a story in May of this year:
“Denver’s Danilo Gallinari briefly mistook basketball for soccer in the 4th quarter of his team’s Game 4 loss to the Lakers, and the Nuggets are now in a 3-1 hole heading back to LA. The outbreak of flops in this year’s playoffs have been well documented, but this may be the most dramatic after-the-flop sell I’ve seen thus far. Acting jobs like these, where a player writhes in pretend pain after the actual contact, are usually reserved for European soccer. Now, they’re creeping their way into the NBA. No bene.”
The point has been made in many cases that flopping came about because of European and South/Central American players who grew up playing soccer where flopping is much more prevalent. Then they watched the Dream Team in 92 and switched their focus to basketball, but brought the flopping with them.
What a bunch of arrogant diatribe these posts have become. Is Lebron European, because he flops with the best of them. Maybe the NBA refs aren’t up to scratch because they keep falling for the flops I’m glad French Dude stopped trying to talk sense as I don’t think anyone could’ve explained his point to a few people but I will try and put it in terms they will understand Tanjevic has been a long serving successful coach and know Kanters game well. He believes the inexperienced Jazz coach isn’t using Kanter’s strengths. Does that help?
If the amount of money was spent in developing basketball in other elite countries as it is in the US then the talent pool would be alot closer, however, no other countries have that kind of cash to spend in the sporting arena, let alone have the population size to choose from. Noone can debate the US being the best team in the world but as far as coaching goes, and no disrespect to coach K who showed his coaching ability at the college level, but I’m pretty sure every head coach in the Olympics and most national competitions could’ve won the gold with the talent level on Team USA
@Disco
The reason LeBron flops is because the Euro’s brought it into the league. Do I seriously have to copy and paste a direct quote from my previous post to help you realize my point?
“Then along comes others like him (mostly from Europe) that employ the same style. Then Americans watch this crap and the stupid ones start doing it too.”
We only sound arrogant when you don’t take half a second to read our posts. If you refuse to take the time to read them, then don’t take the time to post a response.
And don’t give that business about other countries not having money to spend on sports. They spend plenty on the World Cup and CONCACAF and other International Soccer tournaments. They choose to not spend it on basketball and that is fine. Just don’t turn around and pretend like you are better than America at basketball when you choose not to be. No one here pretends that the MLS is better than the European or Southern American soccer teams! We expect the same respect out of tools like Tanjevic. You EARN respect in Global sporting events. Tanjevic has not done that yet, and yet there he is opening his mouth about a country that HAS done that.
If you consider “sense” from French Dude being that he kept changing the subject, then that’s fine. But you blew all your credibility right there. The ONLY reason I am so adamant about responding to these senseless posts, is because I have watched the league deteriorate for over a decade thanks to Euro’s, and didn’t realize there were Jazz fans that actually liked the flopping. What a terrible realization this is.
Again, I don’t want to hear it from you, Frenchie, or “Jazzeduponit” next year when we repeatedly get shafted thanks to superstars flopping all over the place in classic Euro style.
Who said that lebron didn’t flop?? Harden might be the leagues premier flopper now days, and reggie evans could ginobili a run for his money any day of the week! But it started with the euro’s, even the euro’s admit it! Valde did, and a few months ago dan patrick interviewed some euro sports authorities who openly said that they brought it to the game. And yeah nba refs STRAIGHT UP SUCKS no one disputes that point. So you have all the euro’s getting tons of calls and eventually some of the non euros will want some free ones too and its led to the point where most players try harder to flop than to play defense. And duh almost any coach could have won with the US squad, if you’re not going to read all the posts then don’t comment on a full discussion, the point was that euro ball and nba ball are two completely different levels. You can’t say who would or wouldn’t be a coach trying to coach at different levels and different play styles. And Kanter was what 18 when he left turkey, how many good legit nba players have the exact same style of play their whole career, and if you aren’t adding new moves and styles then you’re not ever going to get better. Not to mention like I said things that work awesome in europe might not work as well against US style of basketball. But again no one is saying corbin is a HOF coach, we’ve all said he should have done better last year. And of course they have the money to spend on sports!? look at soccer over there! And you’re saying that number of people in the US is really that much more than all of europe combined??
I love that people can read what we’re saying right from Vlade’s mouth and they still debate it. If that, and the Olympics aren’t enough to convince these jokers, then I don’t have anything left.
Vlade straight up admits it without shame.
These teams repeatedly get owned by Team USA.
And here we have Disco, and French trying to deny it. The writing is on the wall. But if you don’t want to read it, and you prefer ignorance then there’s nothing more we can do for you.
I read all the posts and all I got from it was USA good and European players = flopping = bad. I will concede your point about where the sporting money is spent regarding football. @Zachary you realise that Kanter is only 20, which means he left 2 years ago and due to the flawed NCAA rules regarding professionalism, he hasn’t had a career.
Cant argue that the European players put flopping on the map but that didnt mean the rest of the league needed to follow suite.
Europe has a little under triple the US population but is divided into about 50 sovereign states, most of which dont have basketball in their top 5 sports (they have weird sports like handball)
As far as reading posts go, I think you may need to practice what you preach
So basically you are saying that because kanter didn’t play in a legit league since leaving he shouldn’t have added new parts to his game? Or change what he wanted to change? And we’re not saying the nba players needed to I hate when an nba player flops as much as when a euro does, but it wouldn’t be this big of an issue if the euro’s hadn’t started it and brought it over. And its not the nba’s fault europe spends money on other sports, that doesn’t mean that they are comparable. I don’t think you even made a point in that post so I guess I won’t make one either.
Practice what I preach? All my posts touched on almost every single ounce of statements from you or anyone else. That would be miraculous if I accomplished that without reading your posts or anyone else’s.
I’m glad to hear you at least concede on some points. Cause I was getting frustrated on how else to help you see. And the reason the rest of the players followed suit on the flopping, is because if they hadn’t, it would put the floppers at a severe advantage. So if you want to completely remove all blame and responsibility from your euro style players, AT LEAST blame the refs for being stupid and falling for it.
@Kevin read my first post regarding refs. I’m doing it because everyone else does it is a very childish argument, or is that you making a comment about the maturity of the players. My main point is when someone makes valid points dont bring nationalism into it. Also I’m not European so theyre not my Euro players
@disco I am pretty sure he was slamming both the refs and players who were childish enough to buy in to flopping. And the ONLY reason we say it was euro players who started it all was because…..they did! He posted a coment from divac who admitted, there have been interviews with euro players and analysts who openly admit they started doing it in the nba and things caught on with other players. So we’re mad they started doing it, which doesn’t excuse the US players from jumping on teh bandwagon, but the fact of the matter is that the flopping movement started with and is still going strong with the euro players. NOT because we say so, but because THEY say so!
I agree about the instigators as I said above “Cant argue that the European players put flopping on the map” but the argument got a little off course with the Euro bashing as they arent solely to blame for the ongoing problems in this area, an area which wasnt even the point of the initial argument
Still not convinced that flopping is a valid argument for anything. Refs enforce the rules. Commissioner establishes them. Obviously flopping is long over due for better regulations in the NBA, but thats on Stern not Europe. Bitch about the commissioner instead of the rest of the world. If Euro wants to continue flopping, then whatever. Also the international league is flooded with American players. There is just no validity that Europe is responsible for our problems in the NBA.
Disco and French Dude its valiant, but were wasting our keyboards on this post.